^^^bingo. It's not the manower issue, or the technological issue, it's the logistics issue. Plus, they would be invading the wrong coast--they would have a total of 4 different major mountain ranges to go through before they could even try and lay siege to the capital--with the first 3 being the biggest.

Consider this--the only reason D-day worked is because the supply lines from Britain to France were comparatively small. China would have an assload of ocean to cover, *or* have to truck it through some pretty badass mountains.

And if they pull out the nukes, they can't use any place they land as a foothold on thge continent, because it would be uninhabitable.

The likelyhood of them doing so is small. Plus, you may shoot at a tank and nothing will happen, but kill enough of their soldiers that are hanging around, and morale tanks hard.

*If they tried, most likely, they wouldn't win. And if they did, they would suffer severe losses.

But the same would be said if *we* tried to take over China. We couldn't win that one either.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

[IMG]It's this kind of arrogance that will get the US a major ass kicking. The US isn't invincible, we already have a good chunk of our military half-way around the world and let's not forget we've got a bully with a chip on his shoulder for a president. [/IMG]

Arrogance? I'm thinking realistically here... do you actually think the Chinese could actually reach America in any position to beat us on our soil? I'm sure if crap went down with China, we'd take the bulk of our troops out of Iraq and Europe, and just about everywhere until our homeland was safe.

[IMG]As far as a "few divisions of rednecks", it's easy to claim that you'd fight an invading force when posting on a website. It's a complete other issue when there are Chinese tanks rolling down your street. Go ahead, point your pistol at a tank, see what happens. [/IMG]
I was kidding about the rednecks but I'm sure they would be out for a fight and guerilla-style figting would surely deplete an attacking force. And I wouldnt be pointing a pistol at the tank, I'm sure they wouldn't that far with Abrams tanks in their face... their obsolete armor would be destroyed like we whooped on Soviet-built armor in Iraq!

Quote:

It's this kind of arrogance that will get the US a major ass kicking. The US isn't invincible, we already have a good chunk of our military half-way around the world and let's not forget we've got a bully with a chip on his shoulder for a president.

Arrogance? I'm thinking realistically here... do you actually think the Chinese could actually reach America in any position to beat us on our soil? I'm sure if crap went down with China, we'd take the bulk of our troops out of Iraq and Europe, and just about everywhere until our homeland was safe.

Quote:

As far as a "few divisions of rednecks", it's easy to claim that you'd fight an invading force when posting on a website. It's a complete other issue when there are Chinese tanks rolling down your street. Go ahead, point your pistol at a tank, see what happens.

I was kidding about the rednecks but I'm sure they would be out for a fight and guerilla-style figting would surely deplete an attacking force. And I wouldnt be pointing a pistol at the tank, I'm sure they wouldn't that far with Abrams tanks in their face... their obsolete armor would be destroyed like we whooped on Soviet-built armor in Iraq!

I wouldn't be so sure to say that the United States would be capable of defending itself against an attack. The reason that I say this is because I truly believe that if China decided to attack the United States, they would not be alone.

The United States has done harm to many more countries and left a residual bad taste almost everywhere they go, so again I think it would be China along with many other countries to attack.

I do believe that American Citizens would take a stand against he opposing force, but I'm still wary of whether it would be effective or not. Not saying that I'd hope these things were to come to pass, but if they had I'd question the outcome.

Also, I think the most Un-American thing you can do is be a military member and stake claim at fighting for American Freedoms, and in the same sentence rebuke an Americans right to express those Freedoms and classify HIM as Un-American.

You joined the military knowing that not all will be pleased at the action your command orders you to take. This is NOT like Vietnam where the troops were being spat on and treated unfairly for following orders. Those who oppose what's going on in Iraq are looking at your COMMAND and criticizing them for the short-comings, lies, and chaos that is happening over in Iraq.


"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."

So we're gonna be invaded by the Chinese and ....... the French ? Sorry but that group of rednecks can handle the French. So we're back to the Chinese. Seriously who else would join them ? I know we're invincable but it would take a hell of alot more then the Chinese and a few other third world counties to knock us off as king of the hill. Sorry if that sounds conseeded but I think maybe a little more highly of this counties people then apparnetly you do.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Jackalope wrote:So we're gonna be invaded by the Chinese and ....... the French ? Sorry but that group of rednecks can handle the French. So we're back to the Chinese. Seriously who else would join them ? I know we're invincable but it would take a hell of alot more then the Chinese and a few other third world counties to knock us off as king of the hill. Sorry if that sounds conseeded but I think maybe a little more highly of this counties people then apparnetly you do.

It's not about thinking highly, your assumptions are misplaced.

My argument is this. There are WAY more countries that are NOT 3rd world that I'm sure are just waiting for someone to spark the fuel that is indeed in the pot ready to burn.

The United States has openly admitted that they have greatly underestimated the insurgents. Not only that, but if you'll remember back when the war first started on the ground, I believe that some 10,000 US troops were held back to the point of calling reinforcements by only 400 or so Insurgents. My numbers on the insurgents may be off, I'm not sure...but it wasn't in the thousands I do know that much.

The biggest problem with Americans is that most DO think that we are invincible. Keep thinking like that and remain Ill-Prepared.


"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."

Cham: My original assumptions are based on if it was a one-of-one China vs. U.S. If they come with someone, It would depend on where they were located and how they could assist. Russia would be pretty much in the same boat--there is no way Russia could realisitically invade, or serve as a forward invasion base, for the same reasons China wouldn't. Granted, I would give the russians a better chance at getting through Alaska and/or N. BC.

North Korea--ditto. Vietnam, Ditto. Any country in the middle east would be plagued with the same problem of getting an invasion force over to American soil, except they wouldn't have the whole bloody country to fight through--they could hit Washington DC first.

What that means is thatif Chjina were to ally themselves with someone, they'd want to ally themseves with a country that could give them an invasion fotthold--which means any of the Carribean nations (Cuba comes to mind), Canada, or Mexico. A naion in Northern S. America could work,. but the further you get away, the more chance Americans have of fortifying and blockading the nation, and thus losing the element of surprise.

Honetly, the only way i could see an invasion of the US working is if China managed to put their whole bloody army in either Southeastern or South-Central Canada, or Northeastern Mexico. The west is too mountainous to asvance far in, and it's possible that they could split the country in half that way.

The question is--could China successfully convince Canada or Mexico to station a buttload of their troops right on the U.S. border, or considering that both countries are consider our allies, could they successfully invade them (under the same criteria given for a U.S. invasion) knowing that again, the fleet of ships they would need would cause all of our pacific fleet to be all over their ships like Oprah on a baked ham...

Again, it's not about whether or not we have the strength we think we do, it's all about the logistics of it. I'm not the most pro-american person here, but China invading the U.S. would work about as well as Germany invading India--or vice-versa.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

But the difference here would be we could tell who the attackers were. Either that or WE
would be the ones doing the road side bombings to the invadeing Chinese.

The war over there is completely different then conventional warfair. They come out of the woodwork strike and then run back in. This is the same type tactics General lee used dureing the Civil war. And the same stuff that the side with inferior forces have always done. Hit and Run. Works well too. But do not confuse the Hit and Run style fighting over there with war. If the Chinese or any other country were stupid enough to try and attack us we would launch our own attack against there country. And we have the capibility to completly devistate them without ever putting a single troop on the ground. B 1's and B 2's and B 52's hold plenty enough conventional warheads to level whoever is dumb enough to come and get some. After there country is in flames takeing out any invaders would be easy. Sure they may screw with some stuff like transportaion or power plantes in an attempt to cause us some trouble but in the end
they would meet their end.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Yeah, the handfull of Allies the Chinese could count on is small... maybe N.Korea, Vietnam, Iran, Cuba, France, Russia, etc. We have good relations with just about every other country. These nations might not agree with Bush's foreign policy, but the countries don't hate us enough to wipe us off the map. Plus the short list above of those that DO hate us will not add much to Chinese military power.

I'm sure that even if the Chinese tried to place their troops in another nation or tried to invade Mexico or Canada, that we would notice the movement well ahead of time and blast them.

And if China were to invade Canada as a precursor to invading us we would damn sure head north and help the Canadians hand China its ass. Same with Mexico. We're neighbors and no matter how much they may dis like Bush the truth of the matter comes down to they would China to deal with instead of us. Now Bush may be bad but hes no Kim Ill Dong whoever the hell. Nope attacking us would mean having to go thru one of them and trying to go thru one of them would bring us in guns blazing and ready to kick ass. So China would basically have to attack North America and part of South America. Its good to set goals for yourself but that would be a little toooo ambitious. Nope China would need strong allies and lots of them, but we have allies too so it would even out. They just can not do it.






Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Chamillionaire wrote:The biggest problem with Americans is that most DO think that we are invincible. Keep thinking like that and remain Ill-Prepared.

My point exactly. As an American we've become used to the idea that war happens in other countries, not here. That's why 9/11 was such a major event in our history, it's the first successful attack on our soil in a long time. Bragging about how badass we are doesn't mean we're really prepared for war here, think of how screwed up everything became right after 9/11, and that was only a half-dozen terrorists. What would happen to our day to day life if there were major Chinese "hit and run" attacks across the country?

We are vulnerable, we are not invincible, we can be hurt. To believe otherwise is like driving without insurance. You may have the best car and be the best driver, but that won't stop the drunk guy in the rusted 72 Dodge Dart from rear ending you.




John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto

Acualy i think it would be good for the overall heath of the american spirt to get our faces slaped a few times. look at how we rallied after 9-11.

Chris


"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

Easy John unlike the terrorists who have no nation that they belong to there for we had noone to strike back at. Now take for example the Chinese. Lets just say they did 9/11 style attacks all across the country. Well THEY have a home land and we have long range bombers and ICBM's. How long do you suppose it would take president Bush to order them to scramble and to launch ? Knowing how fast we went into Afghanistan and Iraq ? Maybe 2 days tops ? Then China would be a smoldering crater and any survivors would be trying to find a hole to crawl in and hide.

No see retaliation is our biggest asset. They attack us and since they are a country and not just a group of terrorists we can go bomb them back to the stone age . Nope terrorist activities against the US by another nation would be suicide on there part.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Quote:

Easy John unlike the terrorists who have no nation that they belong to there for we had noone to strike back at. Now take for example the Chinese. Lets just say they did 9/11 style attacks all across the country. Well THEY have a home land and we have long range bombers and ICBM's. How long do you suppose it would take president Bush to order them to scramble and to launch ? Knowing how fast we went into Afghanistan and Iraq ? Maybe 2 days tops ? Then China would be a smoldering crater and any survivors would be trying to find a hole to crawl in and hide.

While part of that is true, if we went over and bombed them on a llarge scale and shot ICBM's at them, I'm sure they would respond with missiles of their own... and we would BOTH be smoldering craters! If we got to ICBM's it would be a nuclear war... if we used strategic bombers they may also respond with missiles because the Chinese have few strategic bombers and they couldn't touch the US.

If war came, I'm sure the US would play the defensive card and wait for the Chinese Army to make a huge blunder... for the US Armed Forces, Air Force, Navy, or Infantry alike to take it to China first is suicide... they would be heavily outnumbered and fighting on China's soil, not ours. Plus our bomber crews would have to bail out over enemy territory and China has like 6000 fighter aircraft (old but they have weapons on them). The only invincible thing we have is the Stealth Aircraft but they will be forced to fly at night!

Spitfire, ICBM's don't have to be tipped with nukes you know. Regular explosives would do good enough.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

We did rally under blind patriotism after 9/11--that's about the only explanation i have fo us letting the bastards in Washington actually pass the Patriot act.

So, in the event of an invasion, aside from the cowed masses, you're goign to have an internal resistance, which will demoralize and be the proverbial monkey-wrench in china's war machine.

But that's moot when you consider what it would take to actually invade the U.S., and topple it. You would need the troops for the expedition force, to land, and set up a beachhed. then, as the forces advance, you'd need forces left behind to make sure that it stays under chinese hands, which will take away from the forces pushing further and further inland.

Now, at some point, they would have the cross the Coast, Cascade/Sierra Nevada, and Rocky mountains. THAT right there is why winning for them will be next to impossible.To actually bring over the troops and war machines over those mountains to advance onto the planes would be next to impossible, and we could hold them into the mountains as the front line. In the meantime, we would have blockade forces set up on the west coast, and with the internal resistance, it would be very difficult for them to conduct operations. You have one huge mountain barrier preventing them from advancing except through a handfull of passes that we can clog up like Rush Limbaugh's coronary arteries, then you have the coast as another natural barrrier.

Now, the few farms they have the the western valleys of Washington, Oregon, and California are not going to be enough to feed that kind of army--they'll have to have a supply line from mainland china, and don't you think that are submarines would make that very difficult?

Like i said, this has nothing to do with how "great" we are or anything like that--any competant general would see that as a military blunder.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

You are correct sir !




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Jackalope wrote:Easy John unlike the terrorists who have no nation that they belong to there for we had noone to strike back at. Now take for example the Chinese. Lets just say they did 9/11 style attacks all across the country. Well THEY have a home land and we have long range bombers and ICBM's. How long do you suppose it would take president Bush to order them to scramble and to launch ? Knowing how fast we went into Afghanistan and Iraq ? Maybe 2 days tops ? Then China would be a smoldering crater and any survivors would be trying to find a hole to crawl in and hide.

No see retaliation is our biggest asset. They attack us and since they are a country and not just a group of terrorists we can go bomb them back to the stone age . Nope terrorist activities against the US by another nation would be suicide on there part.

*rant alert*
So it's logistically impossible for China to invade us, but we could wipe them out in a few days? I'm not a geography expert, but I believe it's just as far for us to go to China as it is for China to come to us.

The US isn't regarded that highly in the world, we're the people who butt in and mess things up. Then we leave things in a mess and have self-congratulatory press conferences about how great we are for "fixing things". Finding countries to assist in a military action against the US wouldn't be a challenge.

Jackalope, I'm disturbed by the arrogant attitude that we won't be touched because we'd "oblitierate any country" that tried. We can sit on the porch with a budweiser toasting our greatness but the reality is that we have weaknesses that can be exploited. 9/11 was a half-assed effort by a few terrorists, what makes you think that a well planned military action wouldn't work?

*puff, puff, puff... I'm ok now...




John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto

Quote:

9/11 was a half-assed effort by a few terrorists, what makes you think that a well planned military action wouldn't work?

You've got your answer right there... because it was "half-assed". No one in the government (conspiracies aside) could have known that a 9-11 style attack would be launched so you can't defend against what you aren't planning for. That is why that attack succeeded because the terrorists chose a vulnerable area (the airline security) and exploited it to attack undefended civilians.

Now in conventional military attacks, the US is prepared for any attack for foreign nations, whether it be convential, chemical, or nuclear... they have a response for any scenario.. that is why they train and have war games and simulators... and show me any nation on this Earth that could take on the US one-on-one and win in a conventional war... sure the Chinese have manpower, but it is no good if they have to means to deliver it to our homeland... we are superior to them in almost everything military besides numbers!

SPITfire wrote:

Quote:

lets see them get through compton

Quote:

lets see them get through compton

lets try again

agghhh your all thinking to much into it the us and canada put the japananse/canadans into camps ww2 if we started a fight now think how many that are here and still love there motherland and had a choose? do you also think it would be just china? not korea and iran would the u.k. help? and other common countrys? germany france ? i think everyone would sit back first and see what happens i think china would get in there really good. mass and first strike always kicked up countrys almost to giving up. germany did it twice in the same areas with in 20years the down fall was they took to much too soon with no planning afterwards and spread out to thin the biggest was attack russia in the winter. and now it would be alot eazyier with the us in afgan,iraq. swimming by korea etc chop stix anyone!

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/4235/jim25ek.jpg

John the reason I said what I did is simple. We have long range bombers and they do not. No bad ass attitude or tough guy thinking its just a fact. Just like its a fact that we can destroy a country without needing to put a single troop on the ground. We can just fly above them and bomb them into memory. We've done it before during WWII so why don't you think we could do it today ? China if they were to try an invasion would be seen coming and we could knock them out of the water. Then we retaliate with bombers its not that hard really. It would take a lot more then China alone to take us down sorry but thats reality.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

John W./Jack, I was saying if we tried the same against China, we'd get folded like lawn furniture...Long-range bombers or not. The Germans had V2's in WWII, and yet they never took over Britain because they never had the infantry invade and actually *hold* the country.

We could drop a few nukes on them, but the cost would be the land being uninhabitable for awile, and the retaliatory strike against us.If we bonved their east coast, it would be the same as them boming their west coast--it would not help in an invasion except conventionally, and as support for ground troops.

Plus, if we did, we'd also have insurgency and resistance, as they would here. Either way, invasion would not be an option for either of our countries--it's a logistical nightmare.

James R: Korea and Iran would not help the fundamental problem of getting the troops over here, and Iran doesn't have enough of a navy to get an invasion force on the east coast. So, that leaves invading the west coast, which puts all the problems back into perspective.

Now, as for the Germans...in WWII, they never went straight into france, they went through Luxemburg and Belgium first, but it was relatively easy because there is land connecting them, and there's not a serious mountain range between germany and France--their mechanized armor can travel fast and strike fast enough. Hence, "Blitzkrieg". In the days of spy sattelites, it would make movements like that a lot harder, but even still, you have well over 6000 miles of ocean for china to go through, then set up a beachhead, provide for the troops, then they have to try and crossed the western mountain ranges--which are more formidable then the Alps are. Good luck getting past that no matter HOW many troops you have.



Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Don't need nukes Keeper just a fleet of B 1's and B 2's would do nicly.

My reference to WWII was the allies bombing a town that was sympathetic to germany untill there was nothing left at all. from eyewitness accounts of the raid carried out by us they said the air itself was on fire. Now if we can do that back in the 40's I'm pretty sure
it could be done today.

Don't get me wrong I'm in no way saying it would be a cake walk or "nothing to it" but it
wouldn't be impossible.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.