Oh God! If she gets in well have to fight them off ourselves cause i can't see a Clinton actualy doing anything against China.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

.... thats what im saying.... in 97 i was in peral harber... and guess what i saw..... a russan destroyer... its not that she wouldent do anything agenst them.. she would invite them.

Chris


"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

Ash, you see things a bit too much in black and white:

What everyone else is saying about an alaska invasion is true. Assuming they could cross the Bering Strait, you're then looking at feeding a massive army (Which means runnng a supply line or setting up base and savenging off the land, and Alaska is not exactly hospitable), and travelling through some rough terrain (ever look at a map of western North--and for that matter, both American continents--it's mountains all the way from the Aleutian islands down to the straight of Magellan). Going will be slow, and every minute wasted since initial detection (don't you think *someone* in Juneau, Fairbanks, and/or Anchorage would phone in saying that they would be invaded?) will give us that much more time to fortify our borders.

Other than that, just because an american don't have their naso-anal interface with the united states government prmanently lubed up doesn't mean that they are "lazy". There has never been an issue that is black & white, and this one is no exception. I know plenty of people that would never dream of fighting in a politically-sponsored war, but the minute their home is under attack, they break out the heavy artillery to defend it. At the point of an invasion, it's less about "fighting for your contry" and more about "defending your home and family". And you can't possibly say that defending your home and family is a lesser motivator than defending youtr country!

I'm not saying technology-wise we'd stomp the hell out of them. I'm talking logistics-wise if China tried it, it would be one of the biggest blunders in military history since Dunkirk. Even if they could field an army of 100,000,000 soldiers, in order to transport them across, give them proper supplies, and move their armored infantry and cavalry to take the west coast, and then subsequesntly across the costal, Cascade/Sierra Nevada, and the Rocky mountains would be a nightmare. The same holds true if we ever decided to launch an invasion against them--it would be logistically nigh-impossible to do, and the cost of human life wouldn't justify it.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Well I think that about sums it up Keeper. Its impossible for it to happen so sleep tight knowing you wont have to wake up and eat rice anytime soon for breakfast.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

I believe that china could invade the US if we were landlocked with them. The logistics of bringing over the needed troops to invade and hold ground would be stopped before landfall was made.

Also I hate when people make comments about americans need to stop being lazy and defend their own country.

When was the last time we had to defend our country? Exactly.

I don't support the IRAQ war, but I still support the troops. I feel sorry that bad leadership has sent the sons and daughters of America to fight and die on foreign soil.

Just like keeper said, if i was fighting it wouldn't be to save america, but to save my family and my way of life, ala the South during the civil war.


-Chris

[quote=Keeper of the Light™]Ash, you see things a bit too much in black and white:

What everyone else is saying about an alaska invasion is true. Assuming they could cross the Bering Strait, you're then looking at feeding a massive army (Which means runnng a supply line or setting up base and savenging off the land, and Alaska is not exactly hospitable), and travelling through some rough terrain (ever look at a map of western North--and for that matter, both American continents--it's mountains all the way from the Aleutian islands down to the straight of Magellan). Going will be slow, and every minute wasted since initial detection (don't you think *someone* in Juneau, Fairbanks, and/or Anchorage would phone in saying that they would be invaded?) will give us that much more time to fortify our borders.

Other than that, just because an american don't have their naso-anal interface with the united states government prmanently lubed up doesn't mean that they are "lazy". There has never been an issue that is black & white, and this one is no exception. I know plenty of people that would never dream of fighting in a politically-sponsored war, but the minute their home is under attack, they break out the heavy artillery to defend it. At the point of an invasion, it's less about "fighting for your contry" and more about "defending your home and family". And you can't possibly say that defending your home and family is a lesser motivator than defending youtr country!



^^ why we lost the vetnam war.

Chris

I'm not saying technology-wise we'd stomp the hell out of them. I'm talking logistics-wise if China tried it, it would be one of the biggest blunders in military history since Dunkirk. Even if they could field an army of 100,000,000 soldiers, in order to transport them across, give them proper supplies, and move their armored infantry and cavalry to take the west coast, and then subsequesntly across the costal, Cascade/Sierra Nevada, and the Rocky mountains would be a nightmare. The same holds true if we ever decided to launch an invasion against them--it would be logistically nigh-impossible to do, and the cost of human life wouldn't justify it.


"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

Let's not forget that a half-dozen terrorists flying airplanes almost completely shut down this country for a few days... imagine what a large scale attack would do.

IF China wanted to take over, they could do so without taking a shot or deploying one soldier. They could embed some tech gizmo into the millions of products they export to our country that would fry other electronics, effectively destroying us from the inside out.

I don't see Alaska being a strategic target. If I was the military leader planning an attack against the USA, hitting the north east coastline would have the greatest impact, followed by Texas. The north east coastline is full of old money and Texas has oil. Cripple both and the economy crumbles, people go on looting rampages and we end up fighting each other for a loaf of bread.

And let's not forget that we've got a good chunk of our military in Iraq, so our forces at home are spread thin. Maybe Billy Bob has a 12 guage, but he's no match for a platoon with AK-47's.




John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto

If we were land locked with China ? Thats gotta be one of the biggest "IFS" in history !

And a good chunk of our ARMY are over there. We still have the Air Force whos main thing has always been protecting this country. Also the Pacific Fleet from the Navy may have something to say as well. It just isn't feasable. Well unless we move the US half way away the world.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Woo, Geography lesson time. Here's a map of BC, pay close attention to the upper half of the map, there isn't much up there at all. This is why 95% of the population of BC lives within 100 miles of the US border.


Its uninhabitable! Alaska / Northern BC is some of the roughest terrain in the world!!! We're talking total wilderness. Here's a couple pictures of the coastal mountains that border alaska.




You are not going to land a force in Alaska, then just walk on down through BC to get to the states. There are only a couple of roads.. which would be in the bottom of valleys, huge valleys. All you would have to do is wait for them to come cruzing down the road, you would have your charges set on the mountain. A well timed landslide / avalanch will stop any amount of troops.

Then we don our hockey gear, get all boozed up, grab our hockey sticks and finish off any survivors. No doot a boot it, eh!











I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, thats as good as they are going to feel all day. ~ Dean Martin

.... dont forget the Marines handed them there ass once befor.

Chris


"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

Hello do you guys really think that I have time to sit in here and analyze everything, no I have better things to do, see last night I was at work and was board so I thought I would stir it up a bit. Thats it, I can really care less about the topic, I just wanted something to do.

IamRascal wrote:I believe that china could invade the US if we were landlocked with them. The logistics of bringing over the needed troops to invade and hold ground would be stopped before landfall was made.

Also I hate when people make comments about americans need to stop being lazy and defend their own country.

When was the last time we had to defend our country? Exactly.

I don't support the IRAQ war, but I still support the troops. I feel sorry that bad leadership has sent the sons and daughters of America to fight and die on foreign soil.

Just like keeper said, if i was fighting it wouldn't be to save america, but to save my family and my way of life, ala the South during the civil war.

Have you ever been in the Military? Probably not. I'm sorry but you know nothing about what it means to protect America and serving it! My husband shouldn't die to protect your Freedom if you are unappreciative, but he has pride in America and is willing to put his life on the line for the citizens of this Country and many other Countries even for ungrateful people like you who would never do the same for him, can you say the same? And yes before you asked I served my Country and did my time People like you make me angry because do you really appreciate the sacrifices our troops make for your Freedom? I don't think you do.

QueenZ, Thank God you JK ! I thought you were going nuts. I've read some of your other posts and you seemed normal then, I was beginning to wonder what you had been smoking ( and if you had any left ) I served as well and I got shot at and killed people and you know what ? I'd do it again in a heart beat. Ashley you must understand some people do not realize the gifts they have by simply having been born here so they do not / can not comprehend the level of sacrifice that was given so their sorry little asses take it for granted.

Graden, Excellent geography lesson my friend. Perhaps they could explain exactly HOW this invading army could move thru that type of terrain. This should be interesting.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Then, and don't take this as an offensive question, but if you're so gung-ho about defending americans and their freedoms, why aren't you still in the armed forces? Seems to me like "Doing your time" makes it sound more like a chore and less like something you'd be honored to do--which is how you come off like.

Not judging you either way, but I'm just curious.

On a personal note, if your hubby wanted to defend our freedoms, i think it would have to start with doing something about his commander in cheif that seems to have forgotten about the 4th amendment, but that's just my opinion. Still, if you read the way it's supposed to work, the soldiers don't defend the rights and freedoms, per se, the defend the country as a whole--it's up to the politicians to defend the rights and freedoms of the citizens, and they're not doing that good of a job of it.

It's why i think your hubby, and people like saint are people of honor because they are willign to stand up and fight for something bigger than themselves, buit i think in the same 2-second timespan that the members of the cabinet, congress, and the executive branch need to be retroactively aborted, since they have only their personal intrests at heart, and not the populace and the continuance of their rights and freedoms.

When it comes down to human nature, they fight for what is important to them. It's why someone like Rascal or myself would not stand up to fight and save america (unless the paradigm that was about to replace it was worse than what we currently have--the whole "devil you know is better than a kick in the goolies on a cold morning" sort of thing). But for me, America, in the utopian vision, is a good idea. In practice, it's corrupt as hell; something i think both the "liberals" and "conservatives" can agree on.

However, when it comes to *my* life, *my* freedom, and the things that are inportant to me, you bet your ass i'd stand up and fight for it. It's why i think the war on iraq is stuppid, and politically motivated for whatever reason, but i'll continue to denounce bush and the rest of the government for their infringements on my freedoms as guarenteed by the constitution and bill of rights.

That aside...

John: You're failing to grasp the differences of the types of attacks. Teh terrorists took us by surprise because of the nature of the attack. What they did could never be a successful invasion. Militarily speaking, if it was a successful invasion, then the pentagon and the twin towers would be under the terrorists' hands right now. In order to do that, they would need some form of amphibious or ground troops to oust, and then subsequently occupy the area to prevent it from falling back to your possession.

In order to do that in america, you would need to set up a beachhead, or a land-base of operations, and expand outward. The amount of troops needed to do that is immense, and the provisions needed by them. You'd either need to stretch supply lines--in this case across the ocean, or invade Canada first. And as Graden pointed out, you see the terrain--that terrain goes from The Aleutian arc south to the Staight of Magellan. Without nearby airbases and the ability to do successful airdrops, how could china hope to move mechanized armor or artillery in that area? They could do it by a fleet of ships at sea, but they would have to get by undetected, otherwise, we'd have time to fortify the west coast--and as someone that has been up the west coast from souther oregon straight up through the northwestern tip of the Olympic Pennisula, that area offer little places for beach landings, and the cliffs are easy to fortify (many are still there).

Either way, getting to the states would be bloody for China, they would lose a lot of troops, and equipemnt in the process--thus lowering morale. Meanwhile, even though the majority of the yuppified populace would go under faster than a Coked-up hummingbird cornholing The Flash. How many would stay on and fight for resistance? Quite a bit. Keep in mind how tough a cornered animal is--many of the more surly americans would think as such--I should know; we have a few in JBNW.

Likely, they would not succeed if they tried, much like we botched Vietnam.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

....^ have you served?

and as for doing your time, somthing Man has to do. doing "my time" i can look back and say i helped out.

more than alot of americans


Chris


"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

Doing my time is just a figure of speach don't read too much into it thats not there.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

No. And i don't intend to. My only point on that was, if you are so gong-ho about something, it would take a lot to stop you from doing that.

I.E. if you believed in this Iraqw gonflict, you would enilist to go over there, and try to keep yourself over there because you thought what you were doing was the best thing to do.

Now, Ash, no offense meant on that question.

As for me, well, the concepts I have about nations, leaders, governments, etc. seem to be things that people either think i'm a crackpot or certifiably insane. I won't argue the first two.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Keeper, If i could go I would.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

^^^and I have no problem with that. I actually look at it this way...

If you really believe that the war in Iraq--or any war for that matter, is the right thing to do, you'll do something to help--be it enlisting or whatnot.

I, however, am not for the war...i think it's a bad idea...so...why should i enlist and fight it. If i thought it was a good idea, i would have enlisted and would be fighting it...simple .

I just get upset with people who are my age (or younger) ranting and raving about how much we need to be at war over there, and how anyone who doesn't believe so needs to get out of this country...when they aren't willing to enlist themselves! Basically, to me that's saying "It's good for us to be at war, just as long as my life is not being risked.

Now, again, i'm not knocking Taesched, or Ash, or anyone else like you--I'm just trying to make a point clear.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

[quote=Keeper of the Light™].

John: You're failing to grasp the differences of the types of attacks. Teh terrorists took us by surprise because of the nature of the attack. What they did could never be a successful invasion. Militarily speaking, if it was a successful invasion, then the pentagon and the twin towers would be under the terrorists' hands right now. In order to do that, they would need some form of amphibious or ground troops to oust, and then subsequently occupy the area to prevent it from falling back to your possession.

Agreed, but if you review how we took over Iraq it started by crippling their communications and eliminating their military, which we did with missles and bombs. Combine that with a split population (part that hated Saddam, part that hates us more), and then we sent the massive land troops in. Taking troops through Alaska then Canada would be an impossible task, they would have to base in Mexico or set up a "Midway Island" base on Cuba or Puerto Rico.

My post was that to successfully invade America would require that it's citizens were in extreme hardship, conquering us from the inside out. Just like we did to Iraq, destroying our economy and oil supply would crush us the way that Iraq was crushed. That would open the door for ground troops and eventually occupation.

I wonder what a McEggRoll would taste like...


John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto

Even worse...

Why would China have to go all the way around S. America (or at least through the Panama Canal) to set up a base in Cuba or Puerto Rico? If anything, they'd do Hawaii. Again, the key thing is...we'd see it coming, and we'd prepare for it.

You also have to think about how hard it would be to totally cripple the U.S. in that matter. You have to remeber, we're americans, and we get mighty pissed if people screw with us. After all, the backlash AFTER 9/11 made us not only topple the Taliban, but go after Iraq who had nothing to do with it (who next--Vietnam to surprise the hell out of them?).

America, like most empires, will crumble from rot within--any outside attempt to take it over will delay that rot. American citizens, as exampled for post-9/11 behaviors, will blindly trust the government if they feel thier illusion of security has been breached--and allow the government to do dumb things like pass the Patriot Act and actually believe it's a good idea.

No, what you need is an era from the end of the cold war up to 9/11 to last for a few more decades--where people REALLY don't trust the government and things like blind patriotism are relics of the past--that way you have more people willing to take ANYTHING over what we have. If you want to topple America, you topple it like Rome was toppled.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Hawaii is still too far away to be worthwhile as a Forward Operating Base, there really is no way to successfully invade the United States from the Sea, we have two oceans protecting us. If you study the history of warfare, sucessful invasions occur when a country is either land-locked, or the invaders have a well setup, nearby FOB. however they can not be sucessfully held because of the advent of the submarine. Twice England almost got choked out of a World War, and the United States nearly choked out the Japanese.

Just to elaborate on what Keeper said on the lack of beachheads, Camp Pendleton's 17.5 miles of coastline is the longest undeveloped coastline in the State of California.




Yella02-I promise I will return to you in one piece and this will stay up until I am safely home

so the longest undeveloped coastline in CA is right on top of a Marine Corps installation......well i guess that rules that out as a landing site nothing like landing an assault force into a camp of Marines. isn't that about the same as walking into a police station and shooting a cop


You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan

(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)

Pretty much, and there is only one road from the coast onto the main part of the base, and it's a bridge.




Yella02-I promise I will return to you in one piece and this will stay up until I am safely home

wow, that would be unfortunate for the few Chinese that make it across the Pacific... they avoid the ships, planes, and subs but then land smack in the middle of a marine base with only one exit... poor fools