Rodney King got that beat down because he deserved it. ( puts on flame suit ) Hear me out before you zap out on me. Mr.King was so efed up on drugs and he is a BIG guy that normal levels of force would not work to subdue him. The police could either A. beat the tar out of him. OR B. shoot his dumb ass. I would have chosen the later of the two myself. I'm sure Gam that in your line of work you have run into people who exesive force needed to be used to subdue them. I have no problem with a druggie whos resisting arrest and hitting cops getting the ass whooping of his life. No problem with it at all. The same for these kids, they need to be taught a lesson and sometimes those lesons are hard learned. Myself, I think the kids should have been fired upon. Why?
Simple now these kids who have been beaten will hold a grudge and be looking for revenge. They know not who it was that gave them the beating only that they were
"our " troops, So now they will be looking to get even with "our " troops. And who is the majority of the troops there ? OUR troops are going to be the ones to get it when these kids grow up so take them out now before they can take us out.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Everebody know that it's completly normal for ADULTS to beat kids like that. They throw rocks.... so what... you do like someone said, you just throw them bigger ones. Those kids would need good skills to really hurt someone with a rock, especially a soldier with an helmet and all the stuff he carry. Now they won't get rocks thrown at them, they'll have a kid with a backpack full of explosive.... those soldiers would deserve what they did to those kids. No kids anywhere on this god damn planet deserve such treatments. And this dumb cameraman, I truly hope he'll fall down from his spot and break his neck one day... You say soldiers are there to maintain the peace.... don't you think that people that live there are not pissed off to lose family members when someone decide to blow some US or Brits troops. There's probably a lot more violence and bomb attack since they are in this country. You said : Yeah but it's better than Saddam.... hmmm yeah... lucky them if the "liberators" don't put another dictator instead of Saddam, like they ALREADY did a couple times before in other countries. They were throwing rocks at them, throw them back or get some guns that shoot rubber balls, that will make them leave believe me. The soldiers that did that just deserve to get severe punishment. Kill kids before they grow up and kill you.... IF THE TROOPS ARE STILL THERE ONCE THEY WILL BE ADULTS THERE'S A @!#$ PROBLEM............
They don't need to be adults to kill troops. Just have a gun. I would have ordered a charge similer to the one you saw and then let one more rock come my way and open fire would have been the next order. Have you ever been over there? have you ever been in the military? If you answered NO then you have ZERO idea of how these people are. And I use the term people as loosly as posible, they are ruthless, blood thirsty,
murderous and hold life in no regard. They will kill you as soon as look at you. They do not respect anything or anyone but they expect you to respect them at every turn. They do not show or give compassion so they are due none in return. If they throw a rock you shoot, If they hurt one of yours you kill one of theirs, if they kill one of yours you kill 20 of thiers. This is who you get thru to these "people ", you can not talk to or reason with them all you can do is instill the fear of God into them so they know you will kill them as soon as look at them and you won't think twice about doing it. I have been there I know what they are like flame all you like but they are not like you and I they do not have the basic compassion you and I are instilled with as we grow up. While they grow up they are taught to kill and maim. You can not rationalize with someone like that you can only kill them before they kill you.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
You perfectly explain why people keep killing each others in middle east.... revenge. They get taught to kill while they grow up.... like if every single kid have dumb parents.... They kill one of yours, you kill 20 of them, they kill 40 of yours.... Look like those troops will be there for the next 30 years to "liberate" them... You seem to think that everybody there are bad persons.... Revenge will lead to revenge that lead nowhere. You're telling me : did you served in the army or have you been there. No I did not served in the army, for a while I was thinking about it because I didn't knew what I wanted to do in life. Now I know. If I've been there??? No, cause I have nothing to do there.
Quote:
And I use the term people as loosly as posible, they are ruthless, blood thirsty,
Wow. just wow.
"i promise we won't get drunk, and go out in boat in the dark, stand up in the boat and fire the gun into the air unless we have life jackets on."
Da Ghost (Qc) wrote:You perfectly explain why people keep killing each others in middle east.... revenge. They get taught to kill while they grow up.... like if every single kid have dumb parents.... They kill one of yours, you kill 20 of them, they kill 40 of yours.... Look like those troops will be there for the next 30 years to "liberate" them... You seem to think that everybody there are bad persons.... Revenge will lead to revenge that lead nowhere. You're telling me : did you served in the army or have you been there. No I did not served in the army, for a while I was thinking about it because I didn't knew what I wanted to do in life. Now I know. If I've been there??? No, cause I have nothing to do there.
Yeah and whats your point ? Thats how they are raised you can't change them the best you can do is get them before they get you. If it sounds harsh it is but as said in the movie Slow Hand Luke and Guns and Roses, Some men you just can't reach so you get what we had here last week. Which is the way he wants it, WELL he gets it ! I don't like it anymore then you do. Just becuse YOU do not agree with the war does not make it any less of one. And as its been said many many times before "WAR IS HELL"
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
What do you expect them to do when you saw all the bombing and killing that the army did? I understand that Saddam was and is a dumbass that deserved to get killed for what he did. I know that we all saw what extremists do when they try to form police officer and stuff.. But having local police and army is what this country need, it's not people that don't understand them that need to maintain the peace. Get local people to maintain peace, a government or whatever you call it to keep things right and then get all the Us and Brits troops out of there. As long as they will be there, as long as they'll get killed. I wouldn't stand another country to try to control mine, it's the same thing for them. Give them back and all that @!#$ will stop. Let them kill each others, yes there will be riots if they leave, but at least they will have control over their stuff and one day everything will get back to normal...
They are working at training them and then hopefully we will leave. I agree that its a BS
war. And no I'm not a heartless ass wipe that thinks kids should be beat down like that but the people over there aren't like the rest of the civalized world and you have to do what you have to do to see the next day. And no not all the people over there are bad but a large number are and they are the ones who even the nice people over there fear.
The extremeists, The radicals and saddly they will be the ones in charge yet again.
I want to see our guys come home safe and sound just as soon as they can. But I realize they have a job to do before they can.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jackalope wrote:They don't need to be adults to kill troops. Just have a gun. I would have ordered a charge similer to the one you saw and then let one more rock come my way and open fire would have been the next order
Very true. The intention was to cause harm to soldiers guarding a post during war, whether it was kids throwing rocks, kids shooting guns or adults throwing rocks or shooting guns.
Da Ghost wrote:What do you expect them to do when you saw all the bombing and killing that the army did?
Where were all these brave people when Saddam was commiting atrocities against the Iraqi people? They were too afraid to do anything, because Saddam would have killed them, and probably half of their family as well.
As politically incorrect as it may sound, the people of Iraq need to fear the foreign soldiers the same way they feared Saddam or there will be more violence.
As for the people who claim this will lead to rebels strapping bombs to their chests and going suicidal, if that starts happening I'm sure we'll establish a perimiter with standing orders to "shoot anyone who comes within 500 feet" of whatever post. That won't promote peaceful relations, but it will maintain order.
Iraq is a conquered nation. There was a war, they lost. Fortunately for them, Iraq was conquered by a nation that it at least pretending to re-establish an Iraqi self-governing body. Had the "old school" USSR taken over Iraq, Iraq would be part of the USSR right now.
I'm sure that most Iraqi people will be relieved when the foreign soldiers leave. But until that happens, they have to recognize that they are currently not in control of their country. If a few kids need to get beat up to reinforce that, then so be it.
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
I do feel that the beatings were a bit excessive. It may not have been the right course of action, but something had to be done to show them not to throw rocks. I've got a experiment for everybody: Go get a bag of rocks and go up to a police officer, then proceed to throw them at him and see how far you get. I'm pretty sure that you would get beat and arrested. If we can get beaten and arrested by our own "peacekeepers" then what is the difference? Those kids broke the law and were punished for their actions. Without consequences for actions the whole world would turn into chaos.
You can't outrun the radio.
94 Red Bird wrote: I've got a experiment for everybody: Go get a bag of rocks and go up to a police officer, then proceed to throw them at him and see how far you get. I'm pretty sure that you would get beat and arrested.
That was funny as sh-t!!
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
hmmmmmmm, i heard on the radio this morning about a group of British soldiers that are going to be courtmashalled (SP?) for beating up a group of kids after, the teens.....first threw a grenade at their compound and then stoned them. Same soldiers??? Im gonna try to find out. If so, the kids deserved to get beat if they threw a grenade.
Da Ghost (Qc) wrote:Those kids would need good skills to really hurt someone with a rock,
ever drop a rock off an overpass? you ever been hit by a thrown rock?
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especially a soldier with an helmet and all the stuff he carry. Now they won't get rocks thrown at them, they'll have a kid with a backpack full of explosive.... those soldiers would deserve what they did to those kids
are you saying those soldiers would deserve getting killed?
imagine a kid throwing rocks at you while your sitting in your car, would you get upset? would you be a pansy and not do anything about it?
here ya go......
clicky
Quote:
teenagers were beaten after they threw a homemade grenade and rocks at the soldiers
Straight from the article.
The Article wrote:The teenagers offer little resistance and occasionally cry out, "No, please!"
Slightly slanted news report... These are the same kids who were throwing rocks and fake grenades. Regarding interaction with adults, I've told my teenage son "If you throw a punch at a grown man, he'll hit you back like you were a grown man too".
These teenagers were adult enough to assault soldiers, reporting that they cried and said "no please" is just an attempt to gain sympathy for them. These teenagers attempted to murder soldiers, I really don't care if they cried while getting beaten up.
The Article wrote:In November, U.S. soldiers found evidence of brutal beatings and other abuse when they raided a prison run by Iraq's Interior Ministry. Weeks later, the existence of another such facility was disclosed.
One could conclude that this is how the Iraqi people run a prison. Despite our best efforts, we can't change a whole culture in 2 months.
I bet Iraqi prisons don't have cable tv or free use of telephones either. </sarcasm>
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
Jackalope wrote:Rodney King got that beat down because he deserved it. ( puts on flame suit ) Hear me out before you zap out on me. Mr.King was so efed up on drugs and he is a BIG guy that normal levels of force would not work to subdue him. The police could either A. beat the tar out of him. OR B. shoot his dumb ass. I would have chosen the later of the two myself. I'm sure Gam that in your line of work you have run into people who exesive force needed to be used to subdue them.
Excessive force? That gets you into serious trouble. I've seen violent drunks/addicts get hog-tied in the back of a cruiser, and they are left to cool off in a cell for a while (as long as 36 hours) until they comply. There are a lot of ways to deal with a beligerent, but crossing the line isn't one of them.. at least, it's not constructive.
What happened with Rodney King and several other beating victims goes WAY beyond any reasonable escalation of force. Dod you not notice that when he was beaten (more lke pulverised), he was cuffed, Tazed and shackled? You don't use the perpendicular grip of a nightstick like a hammer on a person's skull 25-30 times and come in the same city as proper procedure.
Every department has an escalation of force procedure that you MUST follow. If you are on the job, and have a weapon of any kind, you have to follow it. These Army personnell have the same kind of procedures, and in this case, went beyond what was strictly necessary, past getting a little too rough, and into retaliation mode... If they were cops in North America, they'd be suspended pending an investigation which would ultimately show they crossed the line regardless of what led up to the incident. You're supposed to stop when the bad guys are subdued.
This is one of the reasons I'm hoping that the Iraqi National Police get on their feet, and trained properly soon. I'm not going to pillary the Army on the whole, they're doing a job that I wouldn't want to do, but, they're also doing it from a military stand point, not a civil stand point. Also, they have to deal with the long-term consequences that occupying forces don't have to, they're going to be around long enough to reap whatever they sow, and, they're local faces.
If this kind of thing keeps happening, you're going to see Iraq explode, and probably become another Iran.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
He was cuffed shackled tazzed all while high on PCP and still fighting the officers. Nope don't feel bad for him one bit. Don't forget Gam that he was well known by the local police as a druggie that WILL NOT go easily. And he to this day is still in and out of jail and constantly in trouble and fighting with the police. Nope his ass should have been shot, look at all the trouble it would have saved the state over the years.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
T2 wrote:Da Ghost (Qc) wrote:Those kids would need good skills to really hurt someone with a rock,
ever drop a rock off an overpass? you ever been hit by a thrown rock?
Quote:
especially a soldier with an helmet and all the stuff he carry. Now they won't get rocks thrown at them, they'll have a kid with a backpack full of explosive.... those soldiers would deserve what they did to those kids
are you saying those soldiers would deserve getting killed?
imagine a kid throwing rocks at you while your sitting in your car, would you get upset? would you be a pansy and not do anything about it?
You seperated the 2 sentences..... those kids were throwing rocks, not dropping them from an overpass.... We didn't saw the part of the grenade in the video, so it change a little bit my opinion
Yes, if a grenade was involved they should have been shot at.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
sorry didn't mean to seperate the sentences, but still, have you ever been hit by a thrown rock?
it would still hurt even if your wearing a bullet proof vest if it hits you in the arm/face/leg
please answer these questions:
are you saying those soldiers would deserve getting killed?
imagine a kid throwing rocks at you while your sitting in your car, would you get upset? would you be a pansy and not do anything about it?
I didn't said they deserved to get killed, I said they deserved to get beated like the kids, BUT that was before we knew there was a grenade involved in that, it change things since it's way more dangerous than rocks. Kids here don't throw rocks at cars, so... I'll never know...
Anybody ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe THEY DON'T WANT US IN IRAQ?!?!
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* Student of the Univeristy of Oklahoma. Go Sooners!
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Jackalope wrote:He was cuffed shackled tazzed all while high on PCP and still fighting the officers. Nope don't feel bad for him one bit. Don't forget Gam that he was well known by the local police as a druggie that WILL NOT go easily. And he to this day is still in and out of jail and constantly in trouble and fighting with the police. Nope his ass should have been shot, look at all the trouble it would have saved the state over the years.
I'm not disputing the fact that he wasn't an angel, but you don't kick a guy when he's down... You don't beat a buy when he's down.
You've framed your response earlier in the scope of "you don't know what it's like out on patrol," well, you don't know what it's like until someone is drilling you in the kidneys 8-9 times then lets 3-4 other cops in on the action.
I've seen what people that are out on PCP will do (I have texts on what it actually does to the brain), and no, it's not pretty. However, once the perp is restrained, you don't keep thumping him. Doesn't matter what the situation is, you just don't do that... Notice that the cops & LAPD got slapped with an incredible personal injury suit afterwards, they got away from criminal charges, but the 9 cops involved lost their jobs and their pensions over getting a few extra licks in.
In the case of the original topic, these soldiers have likely earned themselves or their comrades a REAL attack with a grenade from the perp's or their friends... at the very least, it's another extra dig that is going to justify to the people that the US/UK are not there to help, just there to hoop them over a barrel and have their way with them. I don't like to say that, but s#it runs downhill and it picks up speed as it goes.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:In the case of the original topic, these soldiers have likely earned themselves or their comrades a REAL attack with a grenade from the perp's or their friends... at the very least, it's another extra dig that is going to justify to the people that the US/UK are not there to help, just there to hoop them over a barrel and have their way with them. I don't like to say that, but s#it runs downhill and it picks up speed as it goes.
Iraq is a conquered nation.
They have to accept that whether they like it or not, the US/UK does have them over a barrel. Throwing rocks (or grenades) will most likely end with more Iraqi casualties than servicemen casualties.
Eventually we will end up with standing orders to shoot any rebels displaying hostile intentions. Our collective efforts beat the best their military had to offer, I'm sure a few rebels will be no problem either, even if they are teenagers.
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
