GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:I think that the younger guy you were talking about has (like many) gotten a very one-sided view of things. Saying he's part of the electronic Intifada is basically stating that he believes in the hard-liner's version of things, and that he refuses to believe anything else.
Fire in the belly tends to mellow out when you realise that there are far too many hypocrites in high places in the world.
Also understand that the people we see day-in, day out that rioting and being general beligerants are:
1. Impoverished, and have been most of their lives.
2. Uneducated. They know the Islam they've been taught since birth, and they know little else because their world revolves around general intollerance.
3. Unworldly. Most don't know that making jokes of a particular (esp. their own) dogma isn't necessarily blasphemy, it's part of the freedom of speech
4. Unsophistocated. They're taking up arms against an "enemy" only because they are basically doing what they're told.
5. Philistine. They don't care that they are basically being divorced from the greater core of moderates who want nothing to with them and their fire-brand ways, and, they're proud that they still have their ignorance to a greater whole.
I don't hate these people... I don't pity them... I worry for them, because, they are ignoring the greater tenents of their religion. They don't understand how they're being played, and they are with little humor that is not mean and de-humanising. I heard on the radio that the Iranian state-run newspaper is running a contest to make fun of the holocaust... It seems to me unsophistocate to compare a single person's lampooning in drawings from a privately held newspaper, to that of an act of genocide in a state-run newspaper.
These people don't understand the difference between humour (which can be done with respect and in most cases reveals comedy in religion), and spite (which is devoid of respect and understanding). Again, I'm not talking about all muslims, I'm talking about the people that take to the streets, burn buildings and incite murder over a cartoon.
That, is pretty sad.
That about sums it up and then some.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:The Last Temptation of Christ, Jesus of Montreal, Passion of the Christ...
They were controversial because they changed the interpretation of history, or put a spin on it that was unsettling, not to mention all were works of art by 3 Catholics. The cartoons of the prohet Mohammed are aimed at the dogma of Islam, and were drawn by a Protestant. They're more different idealogically than they appear, the cartoon wasn't meant to be taken seriously.
Harry Potter books aren't meant to be taken seriously, but there are protests about those too. They allegedly foster a belief in witchcraft, which really wigs out some Christians.
I also remember Mel Brooks "History of the world" getting protested, and that was much funnier than a guy wearing a turban bomb.
John Wilken
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Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Posting a call for violence on someones web site is a sure sign that you are a bitch.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
John Wilken wrote:GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:The Last Temptation of Christ, Jesus of Montreal, Passion of the Christ...
They were controversial because they changed the interpretation of history, or put a spin on it that was unsettling, not to mention all were works of art by 3 Catholics. The cartoons of the prohet Mohammed are aimed at the dogma of Islam, and were drawn by a Protestant. They're more different idealogically than they appear, the cartoon wasn't meant to be taken seriously.
Harry Potter books aren't meant to be taken seriously, but there are protests about those too. They allegedly foster a belief in witchcraft, which really wigs out some Christians.
I also remember Mel Brooks "History of the world" getting protested, and that was much funnier than a guy wearing a turban bomb.
Which proves my point
Harry Potter has a lot of detractors, but these are also people that think that the David or other sculptures should have the naughty bits covered.
And really, Mel Brooks is one of the funniest men on the face of the earth. I find it sad and telling that a lot of people get that wound up about a MOVIE that they start protesting.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
I do not know if this was mentioned, but what is happening is much like Christian Neo-Nazis here in the US. KKK members and the like think that they must use violence to make "God's word" right. They think our country perverts the bible. The irony is they do not listen to the bible when it says love thy neighbor. These are the white terrorists on our own land.
Though I read what GAM said and that makes sense. All of these extremists do not know any better no matter the religion.
Besides, Mel Brooks is a genious and Monty Python is hilarious.
Have you seen Narnia? I know peopel were upset about it apparent Christian message, but honestly I could not find it. There was nothing overtly Christian in that movie but people found the need to complain. I think that sums it up. People complain weather they have something to complain about or not.
PAX
About the Mohamed cartoons.. It would be close to equivelent if someone drew despariging images of a Christian profet like John or the like. I don't think Christyians would react the same way. BUT, there is a key difference. We do not forbid the drawings, we do not have a 1400 year history of forbidding the drawings. We simply cannot understand why they are upset. It shouldn't matter, we should respect the fact that it is offensive to Muslim populations and leave it at that.
If you neighbour absolutely hated it when you water your lawn on a friday, I bet you would avoid watering your lawn on Friday, even if you thought it was irrational. It's called courtacy. A trait far too few demonstrate.
PAX
Ummm...hahaha, I can drawe a similarity--I believe it was a Deicide (band) shirt that has a picture of Jesus on the cross...gutted.
And, the reaction to this shirt was simply put this: The more rampant wind-up toys that claimed to be the more "hardcore" christians among the school went up in arms about it. Some of the more respectable christians ignored it up front, but prayed for the soul of the person who wore it. Many of the people that were sick and tired of the rampant wind-up-toys ANNOYNG THE LIVING HELL out of everyone else applauded it.
Also, taken a step further--and i will admit partial ignorance, i beleive there's a comic strip artist based out of Egypt, who's muslim, that puts out similar defaming images about Israel and the jewish leaders.
In other words, a pot and kettle scenario.
While i agree that sometimes it's just not worth the effort to stir up the @!#$e--you have to keep an even hand on things. Personally though, i think a better comic would have been Jesus, Mohammad, and Moses calling down the wrath of God (Allah) on the current generation of Rabbis, Preists, and Mullahs for crimes against their religion...would have IMHO drove the point home a little harder.
And on an aside (based on youtr Narnia comments), anyone that eschews a form of art because of a religious undertone and can't accept the art at face value is either an idiot, or has faith issues. Just because I'm not christian doesn't mean I personally don't enjoy art tyhat has christian undertones.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Hahahaha wrote: We simply cannot understand why they are upset. It shouldn't matter, we should respect the fact that it is offensive to Muslim populations and leave it at that.
that is all that needs to be written.
end of subject.
blurred wrote:Hahahaha wrote: We simply cannot understand why they are upset. It shouldn't matter, we should respect the fact that it is offensive to Muslim populations and leave it at that.
that is all that needs to be written.
end of subject.
Why? When they don't even respect our right to live. They think that as infidels, it is their right....no, their responsibility to kill us. This is what I believe to be the root cause of the lack of respect they have for us. We are beneath them and as such we have to accommodate their beliefs and they couldn't care less about ours.
While I wouldn't do something purposely to offend any good muslim. I also won't condemn anyone for drawing a cartoon until the greater community of muslims all over the world start condemning the radicals openly and make it known that this bullshít with the killings, fatwas, jihads and spewing of vitriol towards "infidels" won't be tolerated any longer.
When they start respecting us, we'll start respecting them.
Cristianity and Jewdism are attacked on a regular basis all around the world by all the timein fact all religions are made fun of. Cartoons are drawn movies are made and if any Cristian or Jew says anything to voice outrage they are called a nut. Muslim's get offended and the world cowers in fear of them? Bull sh-t! You don't like it ? Tough ! Stop burning our flags and blowing up our people and maybe we'll leave you alone. The way I see it, Keep the cartoons coming ! They want a holy war ? Fine give it to them ! Rocks don't hurt tanks. Good thing is since most of them live like they are from the stone age they won't mind if we blow them back to it. Screw them ! You can make fun and give us sh-t but then you get pissed when it happens to you ? Ef you ! Learn to live with it or cut your sh-t out ! Maybe we should start planting bombs over there so they go off and kill them like they kill us. Hey if those wack jobs think dying will get them into heaven then fine lets give them what they want. They started this I think we should finish it.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Hahahaha wrote: We simply cannot understand why they are upset. It shouldn't matter, we should respect the fact that it is offensive to Muslim populations and leave it at that.
Oh, i understand *why* they are upset at it...I just don't think they *should* be upset at it. But that's just my opinion.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
They have NO RIGHT to be mad at it. Why? Untill they get mad at all the thousands of innocent people who they are killing in the name of their religion they should expect more of the same. Take a stand agaisnt the murdering freaks that are hi-jacking your religion or sit down and shut up!
Keep the cartoons coming ef them if they don't like it. I don't like them flying planes into our buildings and killing us for no reason. They stop, we stop. They started it. And you know what I could care less if that sounds childish or not. I think we should stop pussy footing around and every time they kill one of our troops we kill 1 hundred of their people. Kill an innocent person ? no problem we send 5 hundred of their innocent people to paridise. They'll either learn or all be killed but one way or another this sh-t will end.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Labotomi wrote:blurred wrote:Hahahaha wrote: We simply cannot understand why they are upset. It shouldn't matter, we should respect the fact that it is offensive to Muslim populations and leave it at that.
that is all that needs to be written.
end of subject.
Why? When they don't even respect our right to live. They think that as infidels, it is their right....no, their responsibility to kill us. This is what I believe to be the root cause of the lack of respect they have for us. We are beneath them and as such we have to accommodate their beliefs and they couldn't care less about ours.
While I wouldn't do something purposely to offend any good muslim. I also won't condemn anyone for drawing a cartoon until the greater community of muslims all over the world start condemning the radicals openly and make it known that this bullshít with the killings, fatwas, jihads and spewing of vitriol towards "infidels" won't be tolerated any longer.
When they start respecting us, we'll start respecting them.
some christians are neo-nazis....
does that mean that all of them are?
here they are: a selection on cartoons... they don't seem that bad to me
Nope sorry, little red x is all I'm seeing.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
blurred wrote:Labotomi wrote:blurred wrote:Hahahaha wrote: We simply cannot understand why they are upset. It shouldn't matter, we should respect the fact that it is offensive to Muslim populations and leave it at that.
that is all that needs to be written.
end of subject.
Why? When they don't even respect our right to live. They think that as infidels, it is their right....no, their responsibility to kill us. This is what I believe to be the root cause of the lack of respect they have for us. We are beneath them and as such we have to accommodate their beliefs and they couldn't care less about ours.
While I wouldn't do something purposely to offend any good muslim. I also won't condemn anyone for drawing a cartoon until the greater community of muslims all over the world start condemning the radicals openly and make it known that this bullsh�t with the killings, fatwas, jihads and spewing of vitriol towards "infidels" won't be tolerated any longer.
When they start respecting us, we'll start respecting them.
some christians are neo-nazis....
does that mean that all of them are?
There's far, far greater numbers of muslims that are extremist than there are Christians who are neo-nazis.
Also, Christians condemn the neo-nazi and other groups who in no way represent the christian faith. The general Muslim population doesn't condemn the extremists publicly and some support it either publicly or privately.
I don't know of anyone who could fit into what you would call a christian extremist group or thinks that killing anyone in the name of religion is justified. Ask that of muslims and see how many know other muslims that think certain terrorism is justified. I'll be every one in Iraq and 1 in 3 in the states knows someone like that, yet these people who spread the message of violence are allowed to continue to so because the peaceful muslims won't stand up and denounce them. It's almost as if they don't really disagree with the violence and are only riding the fence to see which way the sentement falls.
How many Muslims go out and protest agaist other radical muslims ? Cristians protest the Nazi wacko's all the time. Big difference there.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
ok im not going to pretend i read ANY of this thread. i have had my FILL of this topic in my ancient history class.
but in case it hasnt been mentioned, besides the obvious reason why it is an offending cartoon, it is that as part of their religion they are not supposed to look at or create any depictions of muhammed. similar to how jews are not supposed to read write or say the word GOD
:::
Creative Draft Image Manipulation Forum:::
Actually one of the 10 commandments was " Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above..." Ex 20:4 ...I have NO idea why but in the Catholic bible it's different...hence so many images of Mary and all the saints. Just adding wood to the fire I guess
03z24
The western world has been abusing the middle east for centuries, and now you get upset over violence?!?!?
I'm not talking about the crusades either (that's it's own story). I'm talking about the colonization first, the broken promises second, then the brutal slaying of thousands later. They start to fight back and you think it's unwarranted? Read some history, you might learn something.
I do not condone violence of any kind, but when people act out in retaliation it's easy to understand.
Start with simple easy things, like operation "Iron Fist" from the early eighties. Do you know why Iran took the hostages during the Carter administration? Do you know why there are Saudi radicals? Do you care enough to find out, or will you continue to spew crap from your mouth in such an uneducated manner?
PAX
^^^ I'm up on that Hahahaha, and escalation on any side of the matter is fool hardy and utterly stupid IMHO.
Nathaniel: Orthodox (Hacedish) Jews don't say God in reference to
Yeshua (Jesus?). They use the Name of Jehovah (Iehova) instead of God, because God is not Jehovah's name.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Hahahaha wrote:The western world has been abusing the middle east for centuries, and now you get upset over violence?!?!?
PAX
I have a friend who says "If someone is being an a$$, leave them alone and they'll go off and be an a$$ somewhere else".
The problem is that the US always sticks it's nose in where it doesn't belong. As many countries as we've interfered with, as many wars as we've caused, as many times we've picked a side in a conflict that didn't concern us,... It's surprising that we haven't had real terrorist activity until recent years.
We should leave other countries to handle their own matters and focused on our own issues.
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
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