After you die?? There's too much things you can imagine.. Nothing, starting as a new person, the list can be long....
True those are all different beliefs from different religions. And they way I look at it is that I do not knock or make fun of any of them because you can not know what is right and what is wrong so live like any of them are just to be safe. Besides whats wrong with treating someone the way you'd like to be treated in return. Its known as being polite.
Believe whatever makes you happy and a better person. But if what you believe in doesn't ask you to try and better yourself then whats the point believing in it ? Always strive to be better and do better or why bother getting out of bed in the morning?
I'm not gonna turn this into a religious debate I've stated my piece and its time to move on.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Didn't mean to make this a debate too. Do what you want as long as you respect others. I don't believe in anything but I respect people that believe in a religion. This way I'm neutral and it's the main reason also why I'm like that. I've seen too much bad things related to religions that I don't want to be associated with any of those. I'm neutral and it will always be like that, this way you can be christian, muslim, jews or whatever you want and I'll still be your friend cause I don't care about difference between people. I'll just argue with them for things that are against common sense.
To start...
Bastardking: The inherernt problem with the universe is that it contains both logical and illogial, rational and irrational, order and chaos, natural, unnatural, and supernatural, normal, abnormal, and paranormal. In other words, it's very improbable that one can conceive a perfect model for the universe using logic alone. The model for the universe then must contain all concepts--both fathomable and unfathomable.
It goes back to the thing i quoted many times, but from a reverse concept: Lack of proof that God exists doen't mean God doesn't, and Lack of proof that God doesn't exist doesn't mean that God does...The only rational explanation is a rational one--God both exists, and doesn't exist--at the same time.
Jack/Cham: While I will not question your faith (since faith is something adherent to the one, and someone outside the one cannot say what it right or wrong for the one), You've just done in simple terms what Nathan's article did. Your point is indeed valid (If God exists, God doesn't stick to our rules and finite cannot fathom infinite), but that alone does not prove that God exists...
Your post, like Nathans, mine, and everyone elses relies on Faith in the concept that your perception lays before you. Even though you, Cham myself, and many other people have vastly differing views, we all have faith in our perceptions. Thus again, the only logical and rational answer is that we're right and wrong at the same time, which, because of the conflicting views, means that it's illogial and irrational as well.
Chosen: There is no proof of "time stoppages" because there's no frame of reference to prove it, and incidently, nothing to disprove it either because if time stopped, we'd never know it
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Nathaniel: Great, you took a first year college philosophy course and now you think you have all the answers to religion and life.
And I know that's a first year class because that's the same argument that they taught me in my Phil 101.
______________________________________________________________
ToBoGgAn wrote:we are gonna take it in the ass and like it, cause thats what america does.
Slo2pt2 (Projekt Unknown?) wrote:One my SON is ADHD N.O.S and Autistic Spectrum Disorder. I will nto medicate him he will battle throught this himself and learn to control it.
Which Keeper it would seem is why we can actualy agree for once to be excepting of others and not try to disuade them in what they believe.
Holy Crap !! Did you guys just feel that !?!?!? ts like the Earth stopped spinning!!!!!
WE ALL ACTUALY AGREE FOR ONCE !!!!!! The end of days must be upon us !!
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Glace wrote:Nathaniel: Great, you took a first year college philosophy course and now you think you have all the answers to religion and life.
And I know that's a first year class because that's the same argument that they taught me in my Phil 101.
what the EFF??
sorry for making u extra sandy
i said nothing of the sorts.
i simply got a interesting article that i KNOW many people have not read. and posted it for discussion.
i am not intending to be a philosophy major it is simply one of my electives: ancient greek philosophy. and i think it is GREAT fun to be in this class, as i learn more in depth many concepts i had already known and learn where modern philosphy originally came from.
again it is simply a paper posted for discussion because the ID post was turning into a wether god exsist or nto post. so i started a knew one that could be more specific.
u need a wash.
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wow why do people keep posting these topics, they should just be stopped.
You have your beliefs, I have mine.
But like others have said, there is no way you can prove without a doubt that God does or does not exist.
The world comming into existance. No one was there to observe it, so wether it was big bang or God, its all based on FAITH.
Sure people can say well look there is micro evolution that proves that there is evolution.
Well you wont find an intellgent believer in God that says mirco does not exist, they will say show me MACRO and there is where that debate falls apart becasue you cannot.
Evolutionist say, oh look e here, look how complex the human body is, after billions of years of getting better and better.
GOd believers say, the bloody thing is so complex and amazing that intellegent design started it.
Evolutionist say well look at apes their dna is 98% ours that shows that we evolved the last 2%
God belivers say, well that 2% sure makes a hell of a differnce and just shows the fact that it had to be intellegnt design to make everything work.
Evolutionsist say given enouhg time that @!#$ will just work out
GOd believers say, flip a junkyard with all the correct components seperated out as much as you want, as many times as you want, for as long as you want and you will never build a cavalier =P
THIS DEBATE WILL NEVER EVER BE SOLVED BY REASONABLLY INTELLGENT PEOPLE.
The only correct and intellegnt answere is that I have my facts to backup my FAITH that evolution/big bang is true, or that i have FAITH that God created everything.
Grow up, get educated, stop being a biased stuck up pig. Congradulations you go to a Community College or hell you go to Harvard, realise that at collegiat levels everyone pushes and agenda, 99% of the time that God is all BS and deal with it. I mean how often have you ever head a professor give counter arguments to his beliefs, well good counter arguments. Almost never.
LIke the quote goes, if everyone is thinking alike, someone isnt thinking. ANd in most classes students are either to intimated by the prof, or have a complete lack of knowledge to intellegantly debate the prof on his point. So to the average joe sitting in a class hearing the prof being unchallanged you think, golle jee joe that must be right after all it look at all these mighty fine points he is making.
Never mind to EVERY argument on this subject there are point, counter point, point, counter point, on and on and on. And guess what you will never change anyones mind, who is intellegent to reason this out themselves.
Whew time for a lucky strike cheers all!!
i was at the last supper, i can vouch for him
ws6
it is NOT about beign right or wrong.
it is called an inteligent discussion among peers. but apparently u do not like discussion.
and WHO Are u calling a stuck up pig?
i seriously hope not me. because i did nothing but post an article for simple discussion that is all. fun and enjoying discussions on a mtter in which the oppinions vary so greatly.
also, the prof i got this article from actually believes in God.
however, since the class is ancient greek phil we were in the middle of the presocratics and discussing Parmenides. Parmenides held the same view as the prof who wrote the article. so that is why the article was givin out for discussion.
in no way in this class does anyone say these phils from thousands of years ago were RIGHT %100. because frankly some of them are simply hilarious to read about. for instance THALES the FIRST presocratic who described the ONE thing in which ALL things is made is WATER. and that wood is just densley packed water or air is loosely packed water.
it is simply discussing the way the world was viewed and was being REALIZED through the ages.
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I'm going to start my own religion here. It's called the "Divine Church of Nothing Specific"
We'll worshop "Him".
We'll hold services "there".
You will be expected to do "this", but you're not allowed to do "that".
The first chapter in our bible will be about "her" and "her sister".
The second chapter will be about "them".
When will it be started? "Soon".
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
Chamillionaire wrote:Very well said Jack. I am a firm believer, no matter what anyone else believes I'm going to hold dear to my heart what I KNOW as the truth to myself. "I'd rather live like there is a God and find out there isn't, than to live there isn't a God and find out there is."
"Hell to me is finding out the truth, too late"
Jackalope wrote:Right back at you Chamillionaire! I'd much rather live like there is a God and find out there isn't then the other way around myself. Personily I always liked the bumper sticker that goes " If your living like there is no God then you better pray you right " 
But I'm sure our couple posts will get panties in a twist.
Wow fellas... you can't think of genuine reason to believe in this? Sorry, but if you believe out of fear, you're no better off than me in the end... And I don't believe at all.
bliZsham wrote:Chamillionaire wrote:Very well said Jack. I am a firm believer, no matter what anyone else believes I'm going to hold dear to my heart what I KNOW as the truth to myself. "I'd rather live like there is a God and find out there isn't, than to live there isn't a God and find out there is."
"Hell to me is finding out the truth, too late"
Jackalope wrote:Right back at you Chamillionaire! I'd much rather live like there is a God and find out there isn't then the other way around myself. Personily I always liked the bumper sticker that goes " If your living like there is no God then you better pray you right "
But I'm sure our couple posts will get panties in a twist.
Wow fellas... you can't think of genuine reason to believe in this? Sorry, but if you believe out of fear, you're no better off than me in the end... And I don't believe at all.
Our beliefs are not out of fear, our beliefs are something that is felt in the heart. We believe what we believe because we love God, not because we fear him.
"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."
bliZsham wrote:Chamillionaire wrote:Very well said Jack. I am a firm believer, no matter what anyone else believes I'm going to hold dear to my heart what I KNOW as the truth to myself. "I'd rather live like there is a God and find out there isn't, than to live there isn't a God and find out there is."
"Hell to me is finding out the truth, too late"
Jackalope wrote:Right back at you Chamillionaire! I'd much rather live like there is a God and find out there isn't then the other way around myself. Personily I always liked the bumper sticker that goes " If your living like there is no God then you better pray you right "
But I'm sure our couple posts will get panties in a twist.
Wow fellas... you can't think of genuine reason to believe in this? Sorry, but if you believe out of fear, you're no better off than me in the end... And I don't believe at all.
also, just because u do not live under the guidance and word of a "God" relating religion does NOT mean u should eb worried if there is.
having God in your life SHOULD NOT affect HOW you live your life. for the fact of the matter is you should live life in the best most honorable way possible regardless of fear of punishment or not.
and if the only reason why u dont do something is fear of punishment than u need to rethink some things.
because again, with AND without God in someones life should nto affect the quality in which they live their life.
God should NOT be effecting anyones decision of right and wrong, for right and wrong is right and wrong, u need not HAVE God in your life to make RIGHT decisions.
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Nathaniel O'Flaherty wrote:
Wow fellas... you can't think of genuine reason to believe in this? Sorry, but if you believe out of fear, you're no better off than me in the end... And I don't believe at all.
***I agree, It's no fun to be afraid all the time. God isn't interested in making you believe in him through fear.
also, just because u do not live under the guidance and word of a "God" relating religion does NOT mean u should eb worried if there is.
having God in your life SHOULD NOT affect HOW you live your life. for the fact of the matter is you should live life in the best most honorable way possible regardless of fear of punishment or not.
***It would be nice if everybody was honorable, that unfortunately isn't the case. Not even with people who believe in God.
and if the only reason why u dont do something is fear of punishment than u need to rethink some things.
because again, with AND without God in someones life should nto affect the quality in which they live their life.
God should NOT be effecting anyones decision of right and wrong, for right and wrong is right and wrong, u need not HAVE God in your life to make RIGHT decisions.
***That makes no sense. Right and wrong didn't just happen one day, somebody had to make them. That was God. The problem is that everybody perceives them different, they have their own set of values. Somebody might think it's ok to steal from you, but I doubt that you would be comfortable with that. You can make moral decisions without God, but then again that isn't what believing in God is all about.
You can't outrun the radio.
Quote:
***That makes no sense. Right and wrong didn't just happen one day, somebody had to make them. That was God. The problem is that everybody perceives them different, they have their own set of values. Somebody might think it's ok to steal from you, but I doubt that you would be comfortable with that. You can make moral decisions without God, but then again that isn't what believing in God is all about.
right and wrong are not created. they are interpreted just as you said.
it doesnt matter wether my right is different than your right. as long as you are making decisions to the best of your brains ability to distinguish between right and wrong that is what it all comes down to.
and if you did that, and there ends up BEING a god in heaven when you do u should fear nothing, because u lived ur life choosing the best possible way your brain could provide. and God could not and should not punish if u did indeed choose the "right" decision according to your brain functionality.
its on the same basis as if someone has a brain disfunction that does not allow them to distinguish right and wrong (this condition does exsist) there is no way, a God that is understand mercifull and just would punish someone for makign a wrong decision if indeed they were not even capable of making or understanding what was right and wrong.
i said it previously but ill say it again
"if the right and wrong action was TRULLY realized than the wrong decision could NOT be made"
and need not ANY outside influence of a God
living a good life is NOT tied to having a belief in a punishing God, or any religion for that matter.
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right and wrong mostly stem from the golden rule "do unto others as you would like done unto you" I would't kill someone because i would not like to be killed. I won't steal because i don't like to be stolen from...and so on. so to me right and wrong come from within, not from some scripture written a long time ago
You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan
(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
Scripture has never ever been presented as proof of God's existence. Ever.
The fact that you know inheritly right from wrong has been taken as proof.
Case in point.. Look at the animal kingdom aside from mankind. It's kill or be killed, steal or starve. With humans it's don't kill or be killed (or at least get locked up) and don't steal for the same reasons. The thing is, people seem to know the basic moral codes right from birth. Within every culture the basic rules are the same, even among people with absolutely no exposure to "civilization". That's kinda cool.
That is not my arguement.. If I'm gonna post the proof, I need time to get ready for it. It's huge.
PAX
Hahahaha wrote:Scripture has never ever been presented as proof of God's existence. Ever.
The fact that you know inheritly right from wrong has been taken as proof.
Knowing right from wrong is learned behavior.
Ever see kids under age 2 playing together? It's not a happy sharing community without adult influence. Just for fun, put down a dish with 1 cookie between a pair of 2 year olds and see exactly what human instinctive behavior looks like.
As we grow up, we learn appropriate behavior, but we're not born that way.
Hahahaha wrote:Case in point.. Look at the animal kingdom aside from mankind. It's kill or be killed, steal or starve. With humans it's don't kill or be killed (or at least get locked up) and don't steal for the same reasons.
If it's instinctive to be a good person as you say, then why are there so many people in prisons? Survival is instinctive, and if survival requires theft or killing that's what will happen.
Knowing right from wrong is learned behavior. With humans, it's "Don't get caught or you will be punished", not "Don't do bad things". That's what we've all been taught by example since we were born.
Hahahaha wrote:The thing is, people seem to know the basic moral codes right from birth. Within every culture the basic rules are the same, even among people with absolutely no exposure to "civilization". That's kinda cool.
If humans knew right from wrong from birth no society would need rules, everyone would know what to do. Every culture does have a set of "crimes and punishments", which speaks louder to humans learning appropriate behavior rather than being born that way.
Just to elaborate, I'm starting a new topic... "Who would you kill if you could get away with it?". Let's see exactly how "good" people really are.
.
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
I didn't inherently know right from wrong. I had to be taught right from wrong. I have learned most of my "morals" from experience....someone stole my bike. I was not happy, therefore I will not steal from others, i was not happy having my @!#$ stolen, i am not a sadistic person and don't feel the need to hurt others to make myself happy, so I don't steal.
Ive dealt with the pain of death, therefore I don't want to inflict that pain on others (unless they are deserving of it)
I don't think any of that comes from gods design. It comes from my own interpretation of experiences in my life
You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan
(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
94 Red Bird wrote:***I agree, It's no fun to be afraid all the time. God isn't interested in making you believe in him through fear.
I also feel this as well. I don't think God wants anyone to worship him out of fear.
I think God wants us to worship and love him freely. I think that is may be a good reason why we won't find proof of God - maybe God doesn't ever want to be proven. If God WAS proven - then people would fall in line out of fear. This happens to some degree now - even without God having been proven. So imagine if God started doing things that could be clearly shown to be his direct work.
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
KOTL wrote:Jack/Cham: While I will not question your faith (since faith is something adherent to the one, and someone outside the one cannot say what it right or wrong for the one), You've just done in simple terms what Nathan's article did. Your point is indeed valid (If God exists, God doesn't stick to our rules and finite cannot fathom infinite), but that alone does not prove that God exists...
Thus the reason I said MY truth is that he does exist. I don't have to prove God to you.
"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."
God does not need to be proved to anyone. God does not make you believe in him. Its whats known as FREE WILL. You are free to do whatever you want to and you are given an almost unlimited number of choices and the choice is yours alone to make. No one can make you believe in God if you do not want to. But I have seen grown men who could kick the crap out of anyone they meet and think God is nothing but BS drop to their knees crying and praying to him that they will live to see another day. I've always known God exists but I found him on the road from Kuwait to Bagdad. You all talk an excellent
game and make yourselves sound like tough guys that aren't afraid of anything. But when faced with your own imenent death at the hands of an enemy I would venture to say each of you will be praying to God that you live to see another day, or that you'll be able to make it home to see your wife and your children at least one last time. I do not fear God as someone else suggested rather I fear for you. I do not try and force my beliefs on anyone here nor do I stand here bible in hand quoteing scripture and preeching to any of you. But I WILL NOT be challeged on this as you will lose. You are all 100% free to think what you want and I will not argue your beliefs but in turn YOU WILL NOT ARGUE MINE. I have seen hell first hand so I know there is a heaven.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Bastardking3000 wrote:If God WAS proven - then people would fall in line out of fear. This happens to some degree now - even without God having been proven.
Excellent point. The same could be said of the Devil not coming forward, confirming hell would lead to the same conclusion.
Jackalope, there's an old saying... "There are no athiests in foxholes".
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
