In the end everyone will get used to smking bans and it will become normal.
Who here is old enough to remember smoking sections in airplanes? How about being able to smoke at your desk at work? Nowadays those ideas seem ridiculous and I'm sure that not many people would support them now, but back when they were first banned it was almost outrageous.
In a few years, people will not even think about smoking indoors....anywhere.
Z2FLIP4 wrote:Quote:
i thought this was the whole point of "smoking sections" in restaurants? so that the smokers and non-smokers could be segregated and not piss each other off
Oh ya, a piece of tempered glass between booths is really supposed to deter smoke from floating everywhere.
Quote:
I honestly think people need to chill the hell out.....blah blah 2nd hand smoke is bad for you and all that bull @!#$.....
well so is taco bell.... that could kill you a few years early if you eat it enough, so could beer, so could being overweight, so could being depressed and stressed etc....do you know how many things are "bad" for you that we do every day? It's just that a few nonsmokers make such a freakin big deal about it.
Youre comparing food, something we all need to live, to cigarettes, something we dont need to live...... Cigarettes do no one anygood, the world would be a better place if tabacco companies never existed. And dont feed me the BS about tabacco companies giving money to anti-smoking programs cuz we wouldnt need anti-smoking programs if they didnt make cancer sticks that kill you prematurely. Smokers come up with some of the lamest @!#$ing excuses to smoke Ive ever heard. Its smelly, its dirty, and does no one any good. You all act like its some kind of great @!#$ing recreational activity that you smokers cant live without. The majority of you prob started smoking in highschool cuz all your "cool" buddies were doing it and you wanted to rebel against your parents and now youre just addicted and cant stop. Its nothing worse than being addicted to alchohal or drugs. I dont have any respect for anyone who becomes dependent on something that causes harm to others whether its 2nd hand smoke or drinking and driving or spending your last amount of money on the "next high"
No one is asking for your respect. It's a smokers decision to smoke and not everyone is going to like what you do. The bottom line is... we all have to find a way to get along with each other just for the sake of living and before you know it... life will be over. Done and Done. Hardly seems like something to madly debate over.
Just for the record, I wasn't one of those cool cats you mentioned that started smoking in highschool. I started like 2 years ago when I met my lovely beotch of a girl friend. lol
KOTL wrote:Kardain:
A frew friends of mine are liking the idea of having a huge smoke-off right in the middle of the street during rush hour (25' away from the doorways) to the King County Administration building, and have fans pointing straight in on it....
This I gotta see. That'll be classic.
KOTL & GAM -- Now when it comes to smoking, I'm not one to be disrespectful, but, if a non-smoker is gonna give me grief when I'm in the (now former) smoking section of a restaurant puffin one back, I'll tell em where to shove it. However, if I'm going to a non-smoking restaurant -- ie JR Phinicky's (think that's how its spelled) in Marysville (GAM, not sure if you are familiar with WA cities, but this one's bout 30 miles or so north of Seattle), then, I'll jet outside for a few minutes to pound another nail in my coffin and that don't bother me, provided the weather isn't too uncooperative outside.
GAM, I'm the same way at home as well. During the summer, I take it outside. The stagnant smoke gets on my nerves. In the winter, I just pop the screen from my bedroom window, hit the ceiling fan, and stand next to the window. And yeah, it's 25 feet.
My whole basis is that it should not be up to the state to determine as to whether or not smoking should be allowed, but rather the business owners as this ban may or may not impact their financial gains.
Kardain:
I see your point, and agree if there's a smoking section that has it's own ventillation and is closed to the non-smoking area, I have no problems... Never did.
The problem is that its pretty damned expensive to do that. Hence why most restaraunt owners here that built after the initial ban were happy (saved them about $50K).
I was referring more specifically to places where some ignoramuses light up at a table close to you and blow the smoke your way if they so please when they can plainly see that you're not smoking.
For the smoking in the house bit, I made that a ground rule when we bought the house... I can't bloody suffer that stench... I remember vividly, when my folks went to sell their old place, the people that toured the house commented specifically about the smoke smell. I didn't notice personally until I got my own place. Needless to say, after 3-4 days of airing the house out, getting the vents cleaned out, and me professionally steam-cleaning and de-odourising the carpets, drapes, furniture, beds and the false ceiling tiles in the basement... people stopped remarking about the stink, and my folks got the point when they bought their new place. I'm replacing all the carpeted areas in my place with hardwood.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
its the single most retarded thing you can do to yourself besides stab yourself with a knife, your @!#$ stupid for doing it period, but it is addictive so no matter how much some want to quit they cant
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Yeah its dumb, but it's sooo addicting (mr obvious). Did you know you are twice as likely to be urinary incontinent in older age if you are a smoker? Three times as likely to be impotent. No thanks
Brown eye wrote:i thought this was the whole point of "smoking sections" in restaurants? so that the smokers and non-smokers could be segregated and not piss each other off
thats like having a peeing section in a pool
and about the whole "cry about 2nd hand smoke....people drink beer and that kills them" type of argument you guys are having. hello, second hand smoke is what other people get stuck with....we dont ask for it. now if someone was drinking beer, thats something they want to do. they dont wanna be inhaling smoke or they would smoke a ciggarete.
FOR SALE: (5) '95-'99 Z24 Rims
Whether you are a smoker or hate smoking, it is not your choice when you go to a restaurant or bar, it is and always should be the owner’s choice. There has never been a ban on non smoking, businesses chose to be smoking because that is what they wanted. I think people have always had a choice to let bars and restaurants know if they didn't want smoking there, they just chose not to walk away.
It should also be said that the largest study ever on second hand smoke found there was no link between second hand smoke and cancer. This study was buried I think by the american cancer society, the reason this study holds so much weight over previous studies though is the fact that it was bought and paid for by the same people trying to cover it up. It was leaked in its entirety and printed in the london times and wall street journal and other publications.
Here in Oregon they are going to try to get it passed the legislature first, we are going to fight it, but currently are working on getting a smoke shop exemption first. If they fail at the legislature (which is unlikely) they will then try a ballot measure next.
here in saskatchewan,canada no smoking in bars, restraunts,padios at restraunts,business' ,hotels soon to be our own back yard..... ooh the inians here can smoke where ever and when ever on there reserves AKA casinos. talk about racism.
i am a non smoker. but i feel thats unfair.
maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow....... but some day
^^^ They have different laws.. they can smoke whenever they want... let them get cancer... they don't have the same access to our health care system (well, that depends on the band... ).
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
SiZZy wrote:Fact: Smoke free bars get less business.
Fact: If all bars are smoke-free due to law, your fact is irrelevant. The only new fact is bars w/patio's become more popular.
Fact: We've been smoke free in restaurants and bars in California for a long time. And I'll tell you, most Californians are always a bit shocked when they walk into an indoor area in Nevada and smell smoke. It's like WTF? Smoke?
You get used to the nicer air real quick.
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who gives a sh!t if people smoke or not. i hate those ba$tards who complain, they can all go to hell. yea, smoking is bad, but so is everything else you simple minded people who b!tch about everything. if we were'nt supposed to smoke tobacco than in wouldn't be growing naturally. but i'm tired of people complaining about smokers.get a fu(king life!!!!
If your name is Mr. Crunch, and you joined the Navy, would you eventually be Captain Crunch?
I'm a smoker, and I think that a total us ban on smoking is premature.
I work in a suburb of Cleveland, and on the street where my office is there are a lot of bars and restaurants. Some don't allow smoking, others have a smoking section, and one bar is "smoking anywhere". My point is that if people didn't go to smoking establishments, they would have to change their policy or go out of business. Same goes for non-smoking establishments, if they didn't get enough business, they'd have to change.
Eventually all bars, restaurants, etc will become non-smoking because consumers won't spend money in places that allow smoking. It will happen on its own, as is the nature of business. If you don't cater to your consumers, they will go elsewhere.
Agustin said that everything in Cali is non-smoking. How long would a new bar in Cali be able to stay open that ignored the law and allowed smoking? Forget about the trouble with the law, it wouldn't get supported by consumers.
And as far as all the negative comments about smoking, they're all true. Smoke does stink, it does offend other people, and even if you never get cancer, everyone who smokes gets some lung damage. And yes, it's addictive.
My only gripe on this is from people who go to places that allow smoking and complain that they can smell the smoke in their cars/clothes/etc. If you know where you're going and it bothers you that much, WHY WOULD YOU GO THERE? It's no different than a straight guy going to a bar that he knows is a gay bar, then complaining the next day about getting hit on by men. Then going right back there next weekend...
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
Da Robot SB (SouthyATL) wrote:Do you think there should be a United States inforced smoking ban on all resteraunts and bars? I do. I think that smokers shouldn't even smoke OUTDOORS. Just in the car, and home. Smokers piss me off. They are SOOO inconsiderate and rude. They just need to stop, it cant be THAT hard!
The individual business should be able to make their own rules. The government does not have Constitutional authority to make these types of restrictions....but they do. Personally, I hate smoking but the government has no place in this one. Next thing you know, they will be banning the use of the word of God. Oh wait.....already doing that. It is going to be a wild ride downward folks!
Chris Crossont
A.H.M. Performance
Baltimore, MD
http://www.ahmperformance.com
I'm pissed... they just banned all smoking on my workplace premises effective 1/1/07
Rodimus Prime wrote:its the single most retarded thing you can do to yourself besides stab yourself with a knife, your @!#$ stupid for doing it period, but it is addictive so no matter how much some want to quit they cant
the single most retarded statement I've seen on the .org. and if you're calling me f*cking stupid... well, that just proves your ignorance.
so eating red meat, drinking from tin cups, not getting exercise, unprotected sex, speeding down the freeway in a car that's not designed for it, pounding MickeyD's and Coca-Cola, heroin, crack, meth, crank... none of those are worse than smoking... that's funny.
I'm still going to agree with Rob. it should be up to the business owner, not anyone else. all these dumb bastards are slowly allowing the government to run our lives, and I firmly believe that this is a another leap in that direction.
Desert Tuners
“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”
mclonedogmcwad wrote:I just saw this thread and was like holy old thread then I saw Kardain's post.
I think he is refering to Pittsburgh, PA specificly Allegheny County.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06278/727546-85.stm
If by he you mean me, nope, Washington State
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=70.160
Quote:
I'm still going to agree with Rob. it should be up to the business owner, not anyone else. all these dumb bastards are slowly allowing the government to run our lives, and I firmly believe that this is a another leap in that direction.
And to extend on that...
By allowing the government to run our lives one step at a time, its one step closer to one-world-order.
Take California for example (why pick on Cali? They have some of the strictest laws around).
It is a state law that a pregnant female gets an alpha -fetoglobulin test (AFG) to test for possible birth defects. What does that have to do with the tobacco bans? The word Gattica comes to mind. Brainwashing the public into thinking that everything will kill you
or the gov't is never wrong.
Now the business owner, ie. my employer, has greatly inconvenienced nearly half of the employees there (>400). They better be paying for nicotine dependence withdraw relief if they choose to follow through with this....
No nicotine = angry Rob
as far as i'm concerned, smoking is a bad habit, period.
nicotine is addictive, making it difficult for addicts to stop cold turkey. people who say they don't understand why it's so hard to stop cold turkey have likely never been addicted to anything, otherwise they would understand. it's a fact about the body, that there is a region in the brain that responds directly to stimuli and positive experiences and it is the source of all addiction, whether that addiction is nicotine, alcohol, or drugs.
people who believe that death will come when it comes, despite your smoking habits...you're absolutely right. smoking is just simply another thing to add to the list of health hazards in this world. the world would be better without it altogether.
further, the most aggregious thing about public smoking, or smoking at all for that matter is that "secondhand smoke causes approximately 3,400 lung cancer deaths and 22,700-69,600 heart disease deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States each year." (according to the American Lung Association)
the bottom line is that non-smokers should never be unwillfully exposed to smoke, because it kills thousands every year.
Nickobub wrote:
people who believe that death will come when it comes, despite your smoking habits...you're absolutely right. smoking is just simply another thing to add to the list of health hazards in this world. the world would be better without it altogether.
So it would be without:
FReQ Z wrote:eating red meat, drinking from tin cups, not getting exercise, unprotected sex, speeding down the freeway in a car that's not designed for it, pounding MickeyD's and Coca-Cola, heroin, crack, meth, crank... none of those are worse than smoking... that's funny.
Add to that drunk-driving, midget tossing, Alaskan sea fishing, various other high-risk jobs... violence on TV, in video games, in books... swearing, nudity on TV and movies, soccer moms driving like raving lunatics... cheesecake, chocolate, carbohydrates, any type of fatty foods...
Nickobub wrote:the bottom line is that non-smokers should never be unwillfully exposed to smoke, because it kills thousands every year.
How is it "unwilling" if you
decide to walk into a business that allows smoking?
Name one place where someone would be forced to inhale second hand smoke that the person didn't volutarily enter. Even
prisons are non-smoking. So where is it that all these non-smokers are "unwillfully" exposed to second hand smoke? Surely you're not suggesting that walking past someone smoking outside will kill you, are you?
.
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
the point isn't to randomly think of unhealthy activities in US culture. it's obvious that a lot of those things are also not good components of our culture. the point is that nothing you listed, or could possibly list, is something so deadly and dangerous yet still considered to be legal.
of course speeding, drunk driving, doing drugs, etc. are all bad, and they're all considered illegal. other activities included in one's lifestyle, such as food quality, nutritional intake, exercise, and sexual activity can also obviously have an affect on our health, but i think most would agree that these aren't activities that the government should be allowed to police.
one might argue that moderation is then a more reasonable approach. despite this argument, "the current Surgeon General's Report concluded that scientific evidence indicates that there is no risk-free level of exposure to second hand smoke. Short exposures to second hand smoke can cause blood platelets to become stickier, damage the lining of blood vessels, decrease coronary flow velocity reserves, and reduce heart rate variability, potentially increasing the risk of heart attack."
i can't think of any other activity that is immediately detrimental to other human beings that is currently lawful, except smoking.
John Wilken wrote:Nickobub wrote:the bottom line is that non-smokers should never be unwillfully exposed to smoke, because it kills thousands every year.
How is it "unwilling" if you decide to walk into a business that allows smoking?
Name one place where someone would be forced to inhale second hand smoke that the person didn't volutarily enter. Even prisons are non-smoking. So where is it that all these non-smokers are "unwillfully" exposed to second hand smoke? Surely you're not suggesting that walking past someone smoking outside will kill you, are you?
.
x2... exactly what John said.
Desert Tuners
“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”
John Wilken wrote:Nickobub wrote:the bottom line is that non-smokers should never be unwillfully exposed to smoke, because it kills thousands every year.
How is it "unwilling" if you decide to walk into a business that allows smoking?
Name one place where someone would be forced to inhale second hand smoke that the person didn't volutarily enter. Even prisons are non-smoking. So where is it that all these non-smokers are "unwillfully" exposed to second hand smoke? Surely you're not suggesting that walking past someone smoking outside will kill you, are you?
.
the action is unwilling because i don't enter businesses to inhale second-hand smoke. i go to places that allow smoking because i want to consume their product and/or services.
and yes, i am stating that it is fact that even casual exposures to smoke are exteremly detrimental to your health. (refer to my conclusion from the surgeon general above)
Nickobub wrote:John Wilken wrote:Nickobub wrote:the bottom line is that non-smokers should never be unwillfully exposed to smoke, because it kills thousands every year.
How is it "unwilling" if you decide to walk into a business that allows smoking?
Name one place where someone would be forced to inhale second hand smoke that the person didn't volutarily enter. Even prisons are non-smoking. So where is it that all these non-smokers are "unwillfully" exposed to second hand smoke? Surely you're not suggesting that walking past someone smoking outside will kill you, are you?
.
the action is unwilling because i don't enter businesses to inhale second-hand smoke. i go to places that allow smoking because i want to consume their product and/or services.
and yes, i am stating that it is fact that even casual exposures to smoke are exteremly detrimental to your health. (refer to my conclusion from the surgeon general above)
simple. find another establishment that has the products/services you require that is non-smoking.
some of the best wings in Phoenix are made in a gay bar and grill... I don't go in there. I find other places.
Desert Tuners
“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”
