Ok most of you guys are older than me and probably have more knowledge on the subject but how come we aren't putting more time and money into an alternative energy source (specifically hydrogen). I mean no matter how much you talk about taxes, price gauging, reserves in alaska, etc... there is still one underlying fact: once the oil is gone, we can' t make anymore. In other words it doesn't matter what we do. Sooner or later there will be no more oil or so little that it is ridiculously expensive.
I've done some research on the internet and it seems to me like hydrogen would be a good idea. I know that people wouldn't be able to switch over night but lets say over two years or so I think it would be possible. Thoughts? Comments?
Uh, we actualy CAN make oil. One ton of garbage = one barrel of oil. Its a process the Nazis developed in WW II when things were begining to run dry in Germany. True its no where near as good as the real thing but with more research and new technologies maybe it could be.
Now as far as hydrogen is concerned it takes 3 times the amount to produce the same amount of power. AND it takes more then double the amount of fosil fuel to get the hydrogen in the first place. So hydrogen uses more fuel to be made in the first place then the gasoline it would be replaceing AND it makes one third the power, so that means it would require 6 times as much fuel to be burned at the hydrogen producing plants then what the cars would burn with a conventional engine. So sure all you get out of your tail pipe is water but what about the emissions from the processing plant?
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jackalope wrote:Now as far as hydrogen is concerned it takes 3 times the amount to produce the same amount of power.
It should be stated that Hydrogen production, or any production that requires more energy to make then it puts out isn't necessarily a problem.
I mean, it's a problem, but such a big problem.
See, at night, or during good weather, you can't just throttle down the electricity generation of a power plant. The energy just gets wasted. It COULD be used to make fuel.
Now, I'm thinking if it takes 3x's as much energy to make hydrogen than it puts out, then that's bad, period. But if were say an electric car that charged overnight, it would put zero additional strain on a grid.
Also, some scientists have managed to get bacteria to create hydrogen much more cheapily....
http://www.energycooperation.org/bioproductionH2.htm
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The battery powered cars are a cool idea but battery technology may not be there yet. One day hopefully but its not now. I'll check out the link it sounds interesting.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Hmm, thats interesting but I hope these microbes aren't going to turn into something from the Sci Fi channel and try to eat us all leaveing some "B" actor to save us all.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
AGuSTiN wrote:
See, at night, or during good weather, you can't just throttle down the electricity generation of a power plant. The energy just gets wasted. It COULD be used to make fuel.
http://www.energycooperation.org/bioproductionH2.htm
Where did you get that bogus information? Electrical generation can and is throttled down during off peak times. Coal, oil, hydro-electric, nuclear power plants only produce what is needed on the lines. Just like in any circuit with constant voltage and frequency, current is dependent upon the load.
And for those who said OPEC sets oil prices, you should really look into this further. Trader speculation is what sets the price of oil (or any commodity). OPEC just gets more because the traders have bid up the prices.
Jack: That'd be time for Bruce Campbell and Chuck Norris to make their way to combat the evil scourge.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Hell yeah Bruce Campbell battleing zombies!!! Now THATS a movie!!!
We can't do anything about the price of gas so stop bitching, drop trowe, bend over and grab your ankles cause the oil companies are gonna stick us all raw!! Either except this
or buy a horse and buggy, or learn how to hot wire a tanker truck
those are you options.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
This is so depressing. Isn't there
anything that the gov't can do? If oil really does get up past say $3.50 a gallon average for the U.S., the economy will shut down. That could send the economy in to a great depression. There is no way that the government could
let that happen. Is there?
Just for anyone that thinks we can drill more in alaska to get out of this - I found one of my old threads.
Bastardking3000 wrote:Just for everyone's information Here is America's Energy score card coutesy of the department of energy
Quote:
Chevron(aka BIG oil company) is behind this site - WillYouJoinUs.com
The counter is based on the daily consumption of oil (84 million barrels per day) and gas (nearly 44 million barrels per day) in the world. The total of 127.8 million barrels per day works out to 1,480 barrels per second. The counter represents the rate at which oil and gas are being consumed in the world at any given moment.
Quote:
The 20th century was marked by rapid growth and an increase in prosperity throughout the world. But the past pales in comparison to the pace at which the 21st century is advancing. Populations are increasing, economies are developing, and the world is consuming energy faster than ever before.
By 2020, some experts predict the world’s energy consumption will be 40% higher than it is today. Efficiency, improvements, and conservation are part of the solution, but will not, in themselves, meet the need for more energy.
coutesy of a google search -
Quote:
The US Department of Energy (DOE)estimates that oil production in Alaska's wildlife preserve could deliver one million barrels of oil a day between 2015 and 2020, which is the estimated timeframe for drilling the ANWR, provided the drilling is approved in the current budget before congress.
lets see here - 1 million barrels a day from the wildlife preserve, which could happen as early as 2015-2020, current usage of 84 million barrels per day(estimated 40% higher by 2020 so 117.6 million per day). So that means we're looking at a increase of 0.853% in world oil production, and even then not anytime soon. Some pump-price saviors congress turns out to be.
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
deuce_coupe_cavy wrote:This is so depressing. Isn't there anything that the gov't can do? If oil really does get up past say $3.50 a gallon average for the U.S., the economy will shut down. That could send the economy in to a great depression. There is no way that the government could let that happen. Is there?
Of course they could...this is the government we're talking about. They care nothing for us and only care about the almighty dollar.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
[quote=Keeper of the Light™]
deuce_coupe_cavy wrote:This is so depressing. Isn't there anything that the gov't can do? If oil really does get up past say $3.50 a gallon average for the U.S., the economy will shut down. That could send the economy in to a great depression. There is no way that the government could let that happen. Is there?
Of course they could...this is the government we're talking about. They care nothing for us and only care about the almighty dollar.Correction KOTL - they don't "only care about the almighty dollar" - they only care about power - in which money is a manifestation of power.
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
Touché. i stand corrected.
So, in iother words, all politicians are Druish princesses.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Here's something we might want to think about because so many forget. When we all talk about oil eventually drying up, being gone, we're talking hundreds, maybe thousands of years from now. Do you honestly think the government cares? No. Why? Because none of us will be here. Everyone born today will be dead and gone long before the oil dries up.
On the other hand, I truely believe we need to find alternatives. If not for us, then for our future generations. Electricity IS a viable option and the technology IS there, but so many of us are so concerned with performance. What's the 0-60. What's the top speed. How many turbos does it have. What's the injector flow rate. All of our race cars and big power street cars take a toll. Only when we can give up quarter mile times and worry more about efficiency will we be able to utilize the technology that already exists. The hybrids are an excellent example. If everyone turned toward hybrid power, that in itself would cut some of the demand on fuel. But then there's the expens of getting one. That's a whole other animal.
oh boy....
oil will NEVER dry up. it is always being generated by the earths cycle.
the problem is, that as we have to go farther into the earth to retrieve it, the cost that it takes to get it and get it out of the earth rises. rising to the point that the cost to get the oil is higher than they can sell it for ie PEAK OIL.
Peak oil is thought to either have already happened or will happen within 5-10 years from now.
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also if we switch to biod and ethonal, we dont even have to loose out on big powerfull fast cars even if they are a waste of natural resources. biod and ethonal are both more efficient fuels than fossils and can achieve the same and sometimes higher hp numbers.
The biggest hole, is the illusion of invulnerability.
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Creative Draft Image Manipulation Forum:::
We could always stop giving the big oil companies that are making record profits all these subsidies and tax breaks. Then again, if we did that there would be a chance that the CEO's of those companies couldn't get their 400 million dollar retirement plans. What a shame!
Exxon has made more money than they can invest back into the company through expansions or whatever else. They have more money than they know what to do with it. They could easily be lowering the prices, but then they might not make billions upon billions. I don't feel that any CEO needs to be making 190,000 dollars a day. Government regulation needs to step. I'm not saying take over the companies, but they need to start regulating this crap because it's getting out of hand.
Labotomi said it best. Has anyone realized when news stations and what not say "Oil has now hit $xx.xx per barrell today on the NYSE." Key words being "on the NYSE." People buy stock in it. Which means people control the price of it, not just OPEC. OPEC and oil CEO's might be tapping their fingers together like Charles Montgomery Burns going "exxxxcellent" but their not doing that while pushing the lever upwards on gas prices.
As for new ways to create energy. It's a very difficult task. Sure car companies can create cars to run on something besides gasoline but the problem is that EVERYTHING depends on oil. So the question isn't really "how can we lower gas prices" The question is "how can we/what can we use instead of oil?" And sure there's many things that can replace oil but what is as abundant as oil?
I say america steps up their game and finds a way. Or finds something we have here in the U.S that we can use. If we manage to find something here that we can use. We've completely changed the worlds economy and power. The money that people in Dubai are making and the United Arab Emirates would all switch over to money that this country will make if we can supply the world with some kind of new raw material that can be turned into energy.
"welcome to the most expensive hobby ever..."
first of all our first goal HAS to be LOWERING our dependancy on fossils.
once we are significantly able to do that, then we have enough time to further develop completely desolving our use of fossils.
personally right now i feel biod is absolutely the way to go. with the new reactor they discovered that GREATLY increase the efficiency of creating the biod it amazing.
much better option than ethonal, that while it is renewable and can be made from most anything grown on a farm, the gas mileage u get, even on a car designed to run eth is not much ahead of fossil fuel.
however biod, ur getting 50+mpg easy plus renewable and non polluting.
The biggest hole, is the illusion of invulnerability.
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Creative Draft Image Manipulation Forum:::
Ok let me throw this out again. Rather then bother with hydrogen crap why not invest the money and time into perfecting the oil from garbage process invented dureing WW II ? I mean come on think about this for a second, we'd get rid of buying forign oil and be able to get rid of land fills and dumps for good. WIN, WIN !! No more need to worry about OPEC and no more garbage land fills. We're running out of oil and we're running out of places to dump the garbage at so this seems like a great solution.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Hemp seed oil can replace something like 80% of petrolium products.
Most oil is used to make fertalizers. That's right, not in vehicles at all but in power generation and nitrogen fixation.
If we run out of oil or biggest problem will not be how to drive our cars but where to get food.
PAX
^ ^ ^ ^ Wait huh ??????? Exxon is used to grow crops ??????? Damn I must have missed that one !! last I checked dumping oil is bad for growing things.
You lost me man, where did you get this from ?
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
wikipedia wrote:
Petroleum (from Greek petra – rock and elaion – oil or Latin oleum – oil ) or crude oil, sometimes colloquially called black gold, is a thick, dark brown or greenish liquid. Petroleum exists in the upper strata of some areas of the Earth's crust. It consists of a complex mixture of various hydrocarbons, largely of the alkane series, but may vary much in appearance and composition. Petroleum is used mostly, by volume, for producing fuel oil and gasoline (petrol), both important "primary energy" sources (IEA Key World Energy Statistics). Petroleum is also the raw material for many chemical products, including solvents, fertilizers, pesticides, and plastics.
and finding food wouldnt be a problem, but GASP farmers would actually have to start growing organic! and omg it would be healthier for us too!
The biggest hole, is the illusion of invulnerability.
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Creative Draft Image Manipulation Forum:::
Jackalope wrote:^ ^ ^ ^ Wait huh ??????? Exxon is used to grow crops ??????? Damn I must have missed that one !! last I checked dumping oil is bad for growing things.
You lost me man, where did you get this from ?
Oil is energy. Energy (in the form of electricity) is used in enormous quantaties to produce nitrogen based fertalizers. 70% of the oil used in the world (not NA) is for the production of fertalizers after being burned to produce electric power (source: Paul Rupert). Almost all oil producing nations (western Europe and North America excluded) produce electricity by burning oil, it is the cheapest way for them. So there it is. Mass amounts of oil are burned to produce electricity which is then used in massive amounts to produce fertalizers (chemical fertalizers of course), and therefore, no oil means no fertalizers which means reduced crop output and therefore food crisis. A food crisis is way worse than high gasoline prices.
PAX
Hmm, I did not know that. BUT on the subject of fertilizers I think all chemical fertilizers should be outlawed because they do indeed harm the enviroment. if you lived in MD or anywhere near the Chesapeak bay then you would know what nitrogen based fertalizers have done to it. Most of the bay is now dead from the run off from fertalizers used by local farms.
So yeah I'm not a fan.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
