Alex that was not intended for you I hope you know.
Sunbird glad to hear it! One down God knows how many left to go. but hey one is a start.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
91 Sunbird SSE wrote:Actually, Jackalope--I "got the hell out" in 1989 and have absoloutley no plans on ever returning to live there. I'm not even much up for visiting anymore.
To be blunt, what the US has become scares the @!#$ outa me.
Thats good to know. Now that I do in my eyes any of your opinions on our government and way of life is null and void. For one you were not here to vote and two if you aint here, I DONT GIVE A @!#$ WHAT YOU THINK!
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Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.
^ ^ ^ GOOD CALL !!!! I never thought of that.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jbody2nr: By that notion, if Canada decided tomorrow to turn off the oil taps, the light switches and water piped to the US, and your gas prices quintupled in 72 hours, the North Eastern Seaboard (along with the NYSE, NASDAQ and several other stock exchanges) and northern Midwest, and Alaska winked off the map, and Most of the South western states starved for water... Would it make you feel better that we DON'T GIVE A @!#$ WHAT YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH?
No, of course not.. you need your gas, you need power, you need water. Canada supplies the goods, you don't care, because its always there, right?
We HAVE to pay attention to what is happening down south because our economy is linked (for better or worse) to yours... but don't forget that you're only about 57 days from total oil starvation.
Food for thought.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Jbody2nr: By that notion, if Canada decided tomorrow to turn off the oil taps, the light switches and water piped to the US, and your gas prices quintupled in 72 hours, the North Eastern Seaboard (along with the NYSE, NASDAQ and several other stock exchanges) and northern Midwest, and Alaska winked off the map, and Most of the South western states starved for water... Would it make you feel better that we DON'T GIVE A @!#$ WHAT YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH?
No, of course not.. you need your gas, you need power, you need water. Canada supplies the goods, you don't care, because its always there, right?
We HAVE to pay attention to what is happening down south because our economy is linked (for better or worse) to yours... but don't forget that you're only about 57 days from total oil starvation.
Food for thought.
That doesnt mean I have to care about anyones opinions on OUR government if they're not living here. Cause GAM while I do value your opinion and I enjoy debating with you I couldnt care less what you think about the president and/or government.
GAM.....I still love you.
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Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.
And what does what happens to one freak of a nut job prisoner have to do with you guys selling us oil? Thats like saying the sun rises every day because we have TV. That makes no seance!
Gam what myself and I believe 2nr didn't care for is his whole "poor tortured terrorist"
rant he went on which basically was a screw you to all of us here in the states. At least thats how I took it, 2nr how bout you?
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Agreed. Apparently to this guy the Government is behind everything.
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Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.
Are you a carpenter 2nr? Because I think you just hit the nail on the head!
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jbody2nr wrote:
That doesnt mean I have to care about anyones opinions on OUR government if they're not living here. Cause GAM while I do value your opinion and I enjoy debating with you I couldnt care less what you think about the president and/or government.
GAM.....I still love you.
No, you dont.
But as long as your government feels free to walk all over the planet, ignoring other countries soveriegnty, and enforcing US government will at the point of the gun.......Then the rest of the world is quite free to tell uncle sam to go @!#$ himself, also at the point of a gun.
Rice.....Part of a balanced Pontiac diet.
So your behind the terrorists then Sunbird? Because it suuuure sounds like it. Your walking a fine line between conspiracy theorist nut job to full on ass hat.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
I'm niether behind them nor against them. As you pointed out, as I'm not in the US it aint my fight.
I simply understand why they are doing what they are.
In terms most of the populace can undrestand, you have a bunch of 1st graders ganging up on the 6th grade bully to drive the bully of thier playground.
If the US wants the terrorism problem to go away, the ONLY thing it can do to make it happen is change its foriegn policy from what it is now, to minding its own damn business. The more damage it causes, the more casualties it creates, the more it uses its "iron fist"--the more "terrorists" it creates. The so-called "terrorists" are nothing more than average joes who have been pushed too far in thier own homes, and have decided to use a particualr tactic to take the argument back to the home of the bully.
"Terrorism" is nothing more than a guerrilla warfare tactic, and by choice the USA has been continously at war with somebody or other for the past 50 years.
and ya WONDER why 1/2 the planet is pissed off at ya'all????????????
Rice.....Part of a balanced Pontiac diet.
Half the planet ain't pissed at us. Just France and the the terrorists and its been proved the French were selling arms to the terrorists and turning a blind eye so France wouldn't get hit. Fat lot of good its done those cowards now. Fact is most of the world does still love the US. They realize apparently what you can not, and that is that the govt is doing things that we don't all agree with.
Terrorism is nothing more then a cowards way to try and bring about political change and these terrorists are nothing more then street thugs as its been proved they can be paid off. They don't care about anything other then money when it comes right down to it and they don't care how they go about getting it. You think they're noble well I got news for you they are no more noble then the crack head who mugs beats and kills your grand-mom for the $15.00 cash she had in her purse. You sure backed the wrong horse for this race.
Moussaoui shouldn't be killed as thats what he wants. Rather he should be locked away in an 8x8 concrete room with no windows, no clock, no comforts of any kind, no way to tell which direction to pray in, keep a light on at all times, keep the temperature at a balmy 55 degrees year round and let his worthless ass rot. And for anyone so inclined to support him I'm sure another 8x8 cell can be arranged.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jack: before you call someone you don't know a coward, strap yourself into a dynamite vest and pull the trigger. Tell me how cowardly you are. Rather, tell me how you got to that point: basically, you've either been indoctrinated with a zealot's riteous indignation after having basically nothing in your life that's substantial, generally living in what western standards would call sub-impoverished. A person from the local clergy tells you that you can get to heaven, but you need to leave all this behind and take other people's lives as well, do you care if it's the infidel or the holy? Not really. Also, remember that in most Muslim countries, the Government doesn't preside over the school system, it's the church... they dictate how children think, and they tell them who to hate and what to do about it. So again, tell me how cowardly you are when you've come from nothing, live with nothing, and have basically got nothing to live for in this life, and ll you need to do to get to something better is die? Please... tell me how that would make you a coward. Walk a mile in the other guy's moccasins.
Okay... Now that that's settled: France's GIGN has actually HAD TO DEAL with terrorists first hand. No US entity has yet done that, not in the middle of a hijacking, there have been pre-emptive raids, but they have yet to come to any convictions. Not to be out done, France's Foreign Legion has actually dealt with Al-queda in Africa, and has been doing that for the better part of 10 years, not to mention that they are STILL in Afghanistan. Iraq is a different matter because they actually had assets in the country and that's why they said it would be folly to invade Iraq... See, they had information that contradicted HMIS and CIA, NSA information... what do they know though? They only had information that was credible (all 3 of the US/UK intel organisations were getting info from the same guy, who had a serious axe to grind with Hussein and was angling for a run at the leadership of the country when Hussein was deposed).
Now, back on topic: If Moussaoui wants to die (the only reason there's been a trial is because he had said that he wanted to die, but his cleric had said that he should at least try to fight for his life), that's his prerogative, but, that's not saying the date with death should be moved up any. My beliefs on the Death Penalty aside, Moussaoui is useful otherwise... he's been the US based co-ordinator for several al-queda operations, and he may know more.
My original idea: announce him as an al-queda traitor to the world, and then ferry him to a neutral country with less strict rules on interrogation (they're more effective than most US interrigators would like to acknowledge), get what information you can out of him, and then either shelter him in a prison in the US, or, let the bugger go and seek his own fate.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Gam as stated before I like your idea as what to do with him.
And yes I call someone who bombs and attacks and kills children and innocent people who no way to defend themseles a coward. I don't care if you blow yourself up or not but attack a crowded market place or hospital or train station or bus depo and kill unarmed innocent civialians is the act of a coward. If your not coardly then stage a full frontal attack on coalition HQ in Bhagdad's green zone. All you show the world when you kill those who can not fight back is that your a coward. And I know its how they are raised Gam I'm not disputing that at all. I actualy posted several quotes from Muslim school children in this country praising the 9/11 attackers and calling them heros. So what do you say we do about the innocent Muslim children in this country who liken the hi-jackers to heros? How should we deal with them?
France sold weapons to Saddam and terrorist organizations thruout the middle east this had been documented. France right now is on the verge of yet another revolution because the way the Frenc govt has rolled over and played dead to the Muslim extremists and now the Frenc people are stageing riots all oer the country. Way to go France!
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
91 Sunbird SSE wrote:Jbody2nr wrote:
That doesnt mean I have to care about anyones opinions on OUR government if they're not living here. Cause GAM while I do value your opinion and I enjoy debating with you I couldnt care less what you think about the president and/or government.
GAM.....I still love you.
No, you dont.
But as long as your government feels free to walk all over the planet, ignoring other countries soveriegnty, and enforcing US government will at the point of the gun.......Then the rest of the world is quite free to tell uncle sam to go @!#$ himself, also at the point of a gun.
Hey I never said that they couldnt have an opinion or couldnt tell uncle sam to to go rape a camel. I merely stated that I wouldnt give a damn.
And I would have to agree with Jack on the suicide bombers. Its a cowardly way to fight.
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Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.
Well, first off, terrorists as rule use theatre to get their point across... ie, explosions, mass panic... etc.
That's not cowardice, if you ask me. That's shrewdness. If you have a limited number of people to work with, and you don't care about whether or not they live to fight another day (ie, a lot of the more zealous suicide bombers are also profoundly illiterate), then you do with them what you want... blow them up, take a few infidels along with him, but give everyone a good scare to cow them into submission. the US does this on every bombing run... but instead of calling it a suicide strike, it's called surgical bombing. The difference is the survivability rate.
On the part of the bomber himself, he needs a good amount of sac to pull it off because it's ultimately his end... for the higher-ups, they didn't care about him or her enough to educate them to make them a better warrior... Call it cowardly if you like on their part, I won't disagree. The one that gets blown to smithereens has a gut check before they put on the det-vest.
Jack: I didn't see where you agreed with my idea. Mea culpa.
Jbody2Nr: The point that I was trying to impress was that the US is not an independant state, and it relies on a lot of other countries to get not only the energy it needs to stay afloat, but the basic requirements of life as well. You cannot go around thinking that you're not going to be affected by your actions, because that's what ultimately led to every other empire's building and unmaking. Blithely thinking that you can do as you please without ramifications is foolhardy.
Much <3
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
My original idea: announce him as an al-queda traitor to the world, and then ferry him to a neutral country with less strict rules on interrogation (they're more effective than most US interrigators would like to acknowledge), get what information you can out of him, and then either shelter him in a prison in the US, or, let the bugger go and seek his own fate.
You REALLY think something like that would ever happen?.......With the ties between the Bush/Cheney/Hailburton/(long list) and the Bin Laden family/Ossama/Oil/Al CIAda.......
He is either a fall guy without any even romotley important information, or the entire cartell @!#$ up big time.........I'm going with the 1st option.
(and Jackassalope, dont bother with your tinfoil-hat-wearing whatever line. All it does is show you to be closed-minded anal-retentive that needs to resort to name calling when you have no references to argue your point. Little better than a 3-year-old stomping his feet and saying "I said so")
Rice.....Part of a balanced Pontiac diet.
Gam I had to respond to you seperatly because I didn't think it fair to you to be included with Sunbird. True I may not have said I agree with you but I listed some of your ideas and just built upon them. Sorry if I wasn't clear but between posting here and talking to the Bush death squad's alpha team leader I got side tracked a little.
And a person walking into a mall and blowing himself up VS. dropping a laser guided bomb on a house known to harbour terrorists is hardly comprable. The terrorist is killing innocent unarmed men, women , and children and that is cowardis no matter how you'd like to make it sound PC. ( shame on BTW ) Where as if those who are harbouring a terrorist are killed dureing a strike designed to take out said terrorist then no one is to blame but themselves for allowing a terrorist safe harbour. Sorry. Do you see a difference yet? They expressly target innocent unarmed civilians, We target the terrorists directly and if innocent civilians are allowing them to hid in their kids bedroom and the kids get killed thats mom and dads fault for allowing the terrorist to hold up there.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jack: do I need to post the civillian death counts on Iraq and Afghanistan?
It happens, I completely understand, but seriously, there have been about 3-4500 people killed in terrorist acts in the mid east in 20 years, and over 11,000 in Iraq during combat operations that lasted what... 4 months?
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Let's not forget Bin Ladden's ties to the CIA. He hasn't always been an enemy, and maybe, just maybe he still isn't. Afterall, how hard could it be to catch a guy that requires dialasis to live?
PAX
Nope--ther folks figgured it out for me.
all I did was use clusty and copernic to do some reading.
well, I DID do some thinking and discernment for myself. I know its hard, but try to remember what its like---you know, back when you had that ability.
Rice.....Part of a balanced Pontiac diet.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Jack: do I need to post the civillian death counts on Iraq and Afghanistan?
It happens, I completely understand, but seriously, there have been about 3-4500 people killed in terrorist acts in the mid east in 20 years, and over 11,000 in Iraq during combat operations that lasted what... 4 months?
yes but GAM, one figure your not taking into account is that of those 11000 "civilians" killed in iraq, how many of them were attacking U.S. troops? i bet over half of them were. and don't try to justify it with the whole "well they wouldn't get killed if it wasn't for bush" because fact of the matter is that we were ordered to go to iraq, and just made the best of a bad situation, and rarely fired unless fired upon. and 99 times out of 100 when a soldier killed an enemy in iraq, it was because they struck first, and we responded
oh and you wanna talk about them not being cowards because they have the "balls" to blow themselves up. I say that when you spend all day giving aid to victims of the red cross center bombing, while in iraq, and seeing those innocent people dying in front of you, and seeing things like children with their legs blown off, you will begin to understand why they are spineless cowards who should all die in the most horrible ways possible. cowards strike unarmed targets using decepive methods, cowards kill innocent civilians for no reason. make no mistake about it. those bastards who strap bombs in thier cars and to themselves are spineless cowards
You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan
(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
GAM wrote:Jbody2Nr: The point that I was trying to impress was that the US is not an independant state, and it relies on a lot of other countries to get not only the energy it needs to stay afloat, but the basic requirements of life as well. You cannot go around thinking that you're not going to be affected by your actions, because that's what ultimately led to every other empire's building and unmaking. Blithely thinking that you can do as you please without ramifications is foolhardy.
Yes I do realize that, that doesnt mean that I need to absorb their opinion and try to make them happy. Or be affected by it at all.
GAM wrote:It happens, I completely understand, but seriously, there have been about 3-4500 people killed in terrorist acts in the mid east in 20 years, and over 11,000 in Iraq during combat operations that lasted what... 4 months?
Between children with AK-47's and grenades.I fully understand if few civilians get killed.
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Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.
