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Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 9:53 AM on j-body.org
uecavboy wrote:
On the first issue you brought up. I don't want to be the minority. And I don't mean i don't want only whites to be the minority. I mean any born american. Think about it. Would it be cool if all of a sudden italians became the minority in Italy?


What? How is that even possible? We'd have to import 250+ million immigrants for that to happen, at once. Think about it, because the kids of the immigrants would be Americans, and part of the "American" majority.

Mikedirntrulez wrote:
not ONE spoke English to eachother. Alright, people may think "oh, well that's not a big deal". Well try dealing with it every day. I think it's extremely rude and disrespectful. I find it odd that they wouldn't even bother to adapt.


Why is it rude and disrespectful? Because you say so? Why do you assume that they are speaking spanish they are not adapting? You have zero evidence other than casual observation because you don't KNOW these people.

As a Mexican-American with literally thousands of relatives and living in a county where whites are already the minority, I can say for a FACT that not ONE Mexican-American I've ever met still wears ranchero outfits and sombreros, doesn't know english, or doesn't pay taxes.

Mikedirntrulez wrote:
I can adapt with any culture. I respect all cultures as long as they can respect me too. I cannot respect a culture that comes here and forces me to learn their language and their culture, complains when they can't get what they want, and they don't even help support the system!


What is sad is that you don't even realize that you're bigoted. You've made all these accusations in the context of being around ten mexican families on public transportation.

They could quite possibly have a ton more economic power than you, but you'd be too blind to notice.

Mikedirntrulez wrote:
And I do understand that not every Mexican is like that, but a majority of them around here are.


In So Cal? You're full of sh!t to the highest degree.

Mikedirntrulez wrote:
I'm trying hard to think of a simple example for you to think (i'm not calling you dumb, but just imagine it this way)....
That may be a little too dramatic for what i'm trying to prove... .


No doubt. You suck at analogies.

Jackalope wrote:So then your all fine with these people streaming in and freely breaking the law? So then I guess we should do away with the boarders all together huh? Whats next all laws? Sorry they are here ILLEGALY which means they do not belong here! I think the rallies however are an awesome idea! Get all the illegals together in one place get Janet Reno to instruct on how to "take them out" and catch them all, send them, and build a wall.


There are Canadians in here posting about how hard it is to work in the US, and yet you ignore these posts and make the same post you already have. Let me lay this out..

1) We need them. Period. Our jobless rate is already at saturation.
2) Our system can' t bring them in fast enough.
3) There are jobs waiting for them, legal or not.
4) Their kids are starving at home.

What is so hard to understand? It's supply and demand, get it? Basic economics. 101, even.

Further, the rallies are stocked, probably a majority, with Mexican-Americans born here. Who probably wouldn't be here if their parents or grandparents didn't sneak over. And I use the term "sneak" lightly, the border has been purposely undermanned for a very long time.

Further, Janet Reno went out with Clinton.


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Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 9:58 AM on j-body.org
uecavboy wrote:Mexicans working here, is similiar to outsourcing. Those who believe in outsourcing days it's good because the product is made cheaper which makes it cheaper for the american buyer. It's the same as mexicans that work here. On one side it's good because these mexicans aren't unionized and don't need $35 an hour to work on a roof. Because of that, you can get a roof put on for fairly cheap by mexicans.

But lets look at both from another standpoint. If we keep outsourcing jobs and taking them away from americans, it doesn't really matter HOW CHEAP the product is. No1 will have a job and have money to buy it. It's a bit extreme to think about but it does make sense.


It does make sense. That's why if we legalize them, we spend zero on deportation proceedings, collect income tax, get the minimum wage applied to them so they make more, etc. Illegals being illegal doesn't help. Making them legal would help out a lot more.

And so would raising the minimum wage. Double whammy.


uecavboy wrote:
Let us make sure that americans and the youth of america is on the right track before we start helping others. Too often are we the FIRST to jump into a situation and help a country out. We tend to overlook what going on here.


I don't think anyone here is advocating putting non-Americans first. I think those of us who are pro immigrants are saying is we shouldn't punish those who have worked for peanuts AT OUR REQUEST.


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Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 10:36 AM on j-body.org
AGuSTiN, So its cool to ignore all the homeless jobless Americans in favor of illegal immigrints? I never said it was eay to get here legaly but whay should those who broke the law to get here be rewarded for their illegal activites? And be given rights OVER legal citizens that already live here? That makes no sence at all !! So go ahead and say I asked this question before but you have yet to answer it so I will contiue to ask.
Why should we allow illegal immigrints here and to work when we have people who are citizens be made to remain homeless and jobless because the illegals should be given a chance? Why should US citizens be cast aside to make way for illegals?
You give me good answers to these questions and I'll stop asking them.


And Yes Janet Reno and Bill Clinton were lovers.

BTW. what you have above are not answers only excusses.







Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 11:08 AM on j-body.org
All Agustin is making is excuses? At least he listens to the facts and doesn't ignore them. You seem to think that your few observations and opinions are far greater than facts could ever be. No one is advocating helping illegal immigrants over Americans. The reaons people are homeless is not because all the illegals are taking their jobs. It's because our government continually screws people over by giving tax breaks to the richest americans while taxing the poorest insanely. Then they don't raise minimum wage in years while the price of gas and other needs skyrocket. But like I said before, I'm sure spending billions to round up all those illegals and kick them out and then build a wall will surely help our homeless. Now with those extra billions added on to the national debt congress will surely lower...oh wait, that's right that would have to raise them. Let's screw more Americans over. Good idea Jackalope. I didn't know you were so pro American.

My father's company doesn't have a high turnover rate. And he can't hire highschoolers. The fact is, he had a company 15 years ago and ran it for 8 or so. He had no problem having employees. In fact, he occasionally had too many. And about 90% of them worked for him until he had to close the business due to personal reasons. Then he went to work for another company doing pretty much the same thing. They had no problem keeping employees for about the first 4 years or so. Then there was transition were there weren't enough to people to do the work. No one was skilled and they could barely hire unskilled people to work for them. So eventually they closed that section of the company and my dad was forced to go into business for himself. Now the same is happening to him. He has 2 employees he can keep around, only one of which is decently skilled. There's no one else. He pays 15-20 an hour and runs ads in all the newspapers. Nothing. He gets maybe 1 or 2 calls a month and either they have no skills or end up not wanting it. My father's business cannot be considered high-turnover because there is no turnover. No one wants to work. He has began to resort to day laborers because no one else will work. With those Mexicans, my father would be killing himself because there is no one left to help him.

And Jackalope, since you again decided to twist my words into some ridiculous justification for your point, let me once again reiterate myself. Have you ever made 2 dollars a day and tried to support say you, a wife, and two kids with that? No? I didn't think so. Have you ever tried to apply to become an American citizen? No? I didn't think so. What about applying to work in the U.S.? No again, huh? My telling you this before and once again is only to show you what is going through the minds of illegal immigrants. They are desperate to help their families. So they risk their life by coming here just so they can keep their children from starving. Is that a justification for breaking the law? I don't know, but I know that if I was in the same situation I would do whatever it takes to feed my family. If that required risking my life to sneak into the US then that's what I would do. I see that sympathy is not your strong point. Let's just kick them dirty Mexican job stealing spanish speaking pieces of trash out of country and build a wall.


Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 11:22 AM on j-body.org
AGuSTiN wrote:
uecavboy wrote:
On the first issue you brought up. I don't want to be the minority. And I don't mean i don't want only whites to be the minority. I mean any born american. Think about it. Would it be cool if all of a sudden italians became the minority in Italy?


What? How is that even possible? We'd have to import 250+ million immigrants for that to happen, at once. Think about it, because the kids of the immigrants would be Americans, and part of the "American" majority.

Mikedirntrulez wrote:
not ONE spoke English to eachother. Alright, people may think "oh, well that's not a big deal". Well try dealing with it every day. I think it's extremely rude and disrespectful. I find it odd that they wouldn't even bother to adapt.


Why is it rude and disrespectful? Because you say so? Why do you assume that they are speaking spanish they are not adapting? You have zero evidence other than casual observation because you don't KNOW these people.

As a Mexican-American with literally thousands of relatives and living in a county where whites are already the minority, I can say for a FACT that not ONE Mexican-American I've ever met still wears ranchero outfits and sombreros, doesn't know english, or doesn't pay taxes.

Mikedirntrulez wrote:
I can adapt with any culture. I respect all cultures as long as they can respect me too. I cannot respect a culture that comes here and forces me to learn their language and their culture, complains when they can't get what they want, and they don't even help support the system!


What is sad is that you don't even realize that you're bigoted. You've made all these accusations in the context of being around ten mexican families on public transportation.

They could quite possibly have a ton more economic power than you, but you'd be too blind to notice.

Mikedirntrulez wrote:
And I do understand that not every Mexican is like that, but a majority of them around here are.


In So Cal? You're full of sh!t to the highest degree.

Mikedirntrulez wrote:
I'm trying hard to think of a simple example for you to think (i'm not calling you dumb, but just imagine it this way)....
That may be a little too dramatic for what i'm trying to prove... .


No doubt. You suck at analogies.

Jackalope wrote:So then your all fine with these people streaming in and freely breaking the law? So then I guess we should do away with the boarders all together huh? Whats next all laws? Sorry they are here ILLEGALY which means they do not belong here! I think the rallies however are an awesome idea! Get all the illegals together in one place get Janet Reno to instruct on how to "take them out" and catch them all, send them, and build a wall.


There are Canadians in here posting about how hard it is to work in the US, and yet you ignore these posts and make the same post you already have. Let me lay this out..

1) We need them. Period. Our jobless rate is already at saturation.
2) Our system can' t bring them in fast enough.
3) There are jobs waiting for them, legal or not.
4) Their kids are starving at home.

What is so hard to understand? It's supply and demand, get it? Basic economics. 101, even.

Further, the rallies are stocked, probably a majority, with Mexican-Americans born here. Who probably wouldn't be here if their parents or grandparents didn't sneak over. And I use the term "sneak" lightly, the border has been purposely undermanned for a very long time.

Further, Janet Reno went out with Clinton.


I'm not even gonna do this quote by quote.

But let me see here. Let me get this straight. I make a general analogy about a certian culture I see in my hometown. I am labeled biggoted. You make a general analogy about me and all of a sudden you are right? You are acting the same exact way as me. You have no reason to be "mr. right" when you can make an analogy just like the 'white man' does.
I beg to differ about me being full of @!#$. You just seriously DO NOT understand. You do not understand what it is like because you probably speak Spanish yourself. That is your lifestyle and it is right to you. You have never been in San Bernardino or Fontana and seen the way the general public acts. Because you're saying i'm full of @!#$ for thinking that most of the families refuse to adapt, obviously you have no clue. If you say you do, then you need to open your eyes a little more. Yes, it's an observation, but why would I need a fact? Do I need a pie chart showing "how many Mexicans have adapted to our society?" No, I've had plenty of observation to make it a fact. You just can't stand to see somebody ragging on a culture you feel you belong to.
I don't think it's the actual job loss/gain that annoys me, it's the legality part of it. Why should everybody else follow laws and live humbly and not break the law, but just because our jobless rate is down and their kids are starving, that can all of a sudden change? What if there was a land of glory down in Mexico where a certain job that required a skill I was good at paid almost $30/hr? Yet that same job paid $15/hr here? And what if it was the other way around and I couldn't get legal citizenship into Mexico? You know what they would say? Too bad gringo!
I really find it hard to agree with you when all you do is bring in this @!#$ty attitude and insult people and think that only your way is right. I noticed that you are Hispanic..... why do you think that all white people are blinded and don't know about the jobless rate? Have you ever been to Skid Row? I'm sure you have! Have you ever been down Melrose? Down Sunset? Hell, even Hollywood & Highland is starting to see it's fair share of homeless people. Why can't we offer jobs to them? Trust me, not every homeless person is too lazy to get a job. I used to know several of them down at my old job. Why can't we help them? Why do we have to help a bunch of people whom don't even belong here LEGALLY?
I just really don't get it. I don't care about economics 101, I don't care about the job rate, the homeless rate, about families, about anything. It is ILLEGAL and it always has been and always will be. There is no other way around it. You know it, I know it... so why argue about it?



Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 11:29 AM on j-body.org
Jackalope wrote:AGuSTiN, So its cool to ignore all the homeless jobless Americans in favor of illegal immigrints? I never said it was eay to get here legaly but whay should those who broke the law to get here be rewarded for their illegal activites? And be given rights OVER legal citizens that already live here? That makes no sence at all !! So go ahead and say I asked this question before but you have yet to answer it so I will contiue to ask.
Why should we allow illegal immigrints here and to work when we have people who are citizens be made to remain homeless and jobless because the illegals should be given a chance? Why should US citizens be cast aside to make way for illegals?
You give me good answers to these questions and I'll stop asking them.


And Yes Janet Reno and Bill Clinton were lovers.

BTW. what you have above are not answers only excusses.


That's mighty bold of you calling my answers excuses.

The homeless in America is also not a simple subject, so tossing a complex answer to a complex question that isn't directly correlated is silly.

While there are lots of homeless who've simply fallen on hard times, is it because of illegal immigrants? No. It's more likely to do with Reagan's cuts of money for the mentally ill, drug or alcohol addiction or choice to live homeless.

That being said, for those homeless who are just unlucky, it's still the governments lax enforcement of the labor laws of this country that has more to do with it that illegal immigrants.

Do you realize that we already have ALL the laws in place to fight this problem, just not the funding?

Thinking about that for a moment.


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Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 11:31 AM on j-body.org
Tristan wrote:And Jackalope, since you again decided to twist my words into some ridiculous justification for your point, let me once again reiterate myself. Have you ever made 2 dollars a day and tried to support say you, a wife, and two kids with that? No? I didn't think so. Have you ever tried to apply to become an American citizen? No? I didn't think so. What about applying to work in the U.S.? No again, huh? My telling you this before and once again is only to show you what is going through the minds of illegal immigrants. They are desperate to help their families. So they risk their life by coming here just so they can keep their children from starving. Is that a justification for breaking the law? I don't know, but I know that if I was in the same situation I would do whatever it takes to feed my family. If that required risking my life to sneak into the US then that's what I would do. I see that sympathy is not your strong point. Let's just kick them dirty Mexican job stealing spanish speaking pieces of trash out of country and build a wall.


I agree totally with you Tristan. I don't want to just kick "dirty Mexican job stealing spanish speaking pieces of trash" out of here. I don't agree with that at all. I just hope you can understand where I am coming from. I can agree with why they want to come here, but when they are ditching schools to protest (using excuses to get out of school for the day) and walking the freeways and protesting like a bunch of animals, it is hard to be sympathetic. When you see a nice peaceful protest where they line the streets, then I can understand the cause they are trying to prove.

I just think sympathy is not a just cause to change a law. Sympathy is what made everybody think "Oh yeah @!#$ the arabs for 9/11! BOMB THEM NOW!" And that is the mentality that Bush fed off of to get us into war. Sometimes sympathy is not always the correct feeling.



Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 11:35 AM on j-body.org
AGuSTiN wrote:
Do you realize that we already have ALL the laws in place to fight this problem, just not the funding?


Yes, but who's to argue if laws even work anymore?

And I mean this seriously.... if people were allowed to come into this country illegally, then how would we ever get the funding? We would have to spend more on Healthcare for the growing population as well as Billions of dollars in road construction/maintenance to handle the new found population.



Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 11:45 AM on j-body.org
Mikedirntrulez wrote:
I'm not even gonna do this quote by quote.

But let me see here. Let me get this straight. I make a general analogy about a certian culture I see in my hometown. I am labeled biggoted. You make a general analogy about me and all of a sudden you are right?


What analogy did I make about you? Do you even know what an analogy is?

Mikedirntrulez wrote:
You do not understand what it is like because you probably speak Spanish yourself.


Nice try, but now you're also making bad assumptions. I don't speak spanish, not a lick. I know just about what every white person knows, "yo quero taco bell".

I don't speak spanish because my grandparents were beaten in school for speaking it. So they made sure their kids didn't speak it and didn't teach them. Therefore, neither of my parents spoke spanish growing up, though my mom learned some latter in life.

Mikedirntrulez wrote:You have never been in San Bernardino or Fontana and seen the way the general public acts.


Most of my family lives in San Bernardino and Riverside counties. Another bad assumption. I spend outrageous amounts of time down there, it's only 5 hours from Fresno. You can go to the regional forum and see posts about me making trips down there to meet/sell whatever.

Mikedirntrulez wrote:
I don't think it's the actual job loss/gain that annoys me, it's the legality part of it.


Really? Are you equally upset with all these employers skirting the hiring laws, too? What forum posts are you involved in at job hiring websites, blasting the illegal immigrants hirers? I want links.

Mikedirntrulez wrote:why do you think that all white people are blinded and don't know about the jobless rate?


Show me once where I said "all white people" about ANYTHING.

Mikedirntrulez wrote:
Have you ever been to Skid Row? I'm sure you have! Have you ever been down Melrose? Down Sunset? Hell, even Hollywood & Highland is starting to see it's fair share of homeless people.


Yes, I'm near Staples Center several times a year and see them. My company holds a convention at the Kodak Theater in Hollywood every few years as well. I know what's going on.

Mikedirntrulez wrote:
Why can't we offer jobs to them? Trust me, not every homeless person is too lazy to get a job. I used to know several of them down at my old job. Why can't we help them?


I DO help them. Every month at said link and once a week in downtown Fresno. I give up my Friday nights to go feed them. Do you?

Don't try to take the morality high road with me.


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Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 11:57 AM on j-body.org
First off how is anything done by Regan back in the 80's effecting anyone now? I'd venture to say that any new homeless were put there when the dot com bubble burst
while Clinton was in office. Bush is now finally getting these people into homes. Home ownership is highest its EVEN been! Thank you Bush! Unemployment numbers are the lowest in a long time. Thank you again Bush! Geez you guys just have your panties in a twist because its a Republican doing it. If this was Clinton you'd all be swearing he was indeed the second comeing of Christ.

Bold statement? Mmm how about the truth. These people should be removed the way Janet Reno removed Eleon Gonzolis (sp) from the closet in Florida. By gun point if nessacary. How else do police deal with criminals? Well why should this be any different? If they're here legaly I could care less where they are from or what language they speek but they need to be here legaly or kick them out!

They are criminals point blank, end of it, period. Why they are here or their nobel reasons matter not, they are breaking the law and need to be dely with as the law says they should. Thats the truth of the matter.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 12:02 PM on j-body.org
Jackalope wrote:First off how is anything done by Regan back in the 80's effecting anyone now? I'd venture to say that any new homeless were put there when the dot com bubble burst
while Clinton was in office.


Are you serious? It's called Google, use it. You're just guessing.

Jackalope wrote:
Bush is now finally getting these people into homes. Home ownership is highest its EVEN been! Thank you Bush! Unemployment numbers are the lowest in a long time. Thank you again Bush! Geez you guys just have your panties in a twist because its a Republican doing it. If this was Clinton you'd all be swearing he was indeed the second comeing of Christ.


Yay, 9 trillion in debt! Highest deficit ever!! Highest debt ever!! GO BUSH!!! In a way with no strategy to win, only not to lose! YAY!!


Jackalope wrote: These people should be removed the way Janet Reno removed Eleon Gonzolis (sp) from the closet in Florida. By gun point if nessacary. How else do police deal with criminals? Well why should this be any different? If they're here legaly I could care less where they are from or what language they speek but they need to be here legaly or kick them out!

They are criminals point blank, end of it, period. Why they are here or their nobel reasons matter not, they are breaking the law and need to be dely with as the law says they should. Thats the truth of the matter.


You still haven't answered one simple question. How much is deporting 11 million people who are not on any official record going to cost? In government man power, research, muscle, loss of employees, food that goes unpicked, construction that halts...?

Tell me, Mr. Simple As That Jr.

Lots of simple answers is all you have.


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Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 12:06 PM on j-body.org
And again, watch all those "wonderful" things Bush has accomplished crumble as the economy falls to shambles. Billions to find all the illegals, billions to deport them, billions to build a wall, billions to keep them out, billions to help support the farm industry as it collapses upon itself. Very simple Jackalope.


Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 12:13 PM on j-body.org
I'll make this real simple for all of you on Jackalopes side of the fence...

How are you going to win without crowds like these?...

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-immig26mar26,0,7628611.story?coll=la-home-headlines



Another 30 protests across the country scheduled for today.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/10/immigration/index.html


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Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 12:50 PM on j-body.org
So then we just let them all stay right? Hey I know they can have your jobs! So if money is your reason for letting them stay you guys must be Republicans right? I mean money being the main reason and all. So then what do we do with them once they're here? You say no Americans can I've makeing the piddly amount these poor people are paid, so I'm led to believe we all get to support them thru welfair right ? So we get to pay for the whole family and their care for the rest of thier lives right ? I mean a one time shipping charge is too too costly but supporting the family is cool ?

The whole "Stragity" arguement is so much fun !!! Hey lets all play !! Whats the Democrats stragity on the war on hunger? Remember that? I do and its not going so well, no stragity I guess.

But look at any other war in history and please show me where we ever had a stragity for after the wars were over ? All this stragity crap is in responce to how well the war went. The Dems said we'll get hit with chemical weapons and our boys will die, NEVER HAPPENED. Next up was we'll be stuck in a Vietnam like quagmire for years and years, Oops didn't happen either. Hmm..... Oh yeah !! We'll never catch Saddam Hussain, We did. The only things left to bitch about are you never found WMD's when if you'd actualy read the news we went in as a responce to Saddam trying to purchase weapons grade nuclear material from Africa, But I guess you must have forgotten that since its not pounded into our heads everyday right? So the Dems are left with the STRAGITY non-sence and nothing else. Noone asked about an exit stragity from Europe after WWI did they ? Gee they didn't !! How about WWII ? GASP! No again. Korea ? NOPE ! Vietnam ? Nuh Uh ! We'll go back in time further to the Civil war? Don't think so. So please tell me guys what war the the US EVER been in that we had a clear cut exit stragity? I'll wait while you go look, take your time.

As for the deficit please show me one single war we've ever been in where we came out without a deficit. Wars cost money, lots of money but I know you'd rather us just roll over and play dead for the terrorists wouldn't you? Oh and PLEASE say we don't have any proof of any terorists being supported by Saddam cause if you'd like a list I could give you one.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 2:06 PM on j-body.org
WWI - Supress their economies and make the offending countries pay for their crimes. It was a strategy, even if it failed, resulting in WWII.

WWII - Help the offending countries rebuild with loans. We restructured governments ruled by single individuals and built them into thriving democracies that are economic powerhouses today.

Vietnam - We lost that war. How's that for a strategy?

Korea - Korean War is not technically over. This is bad.

Desert Storm - Bush Sr had and executed a plan to get in and out of Kuwait.


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Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 2:08 PM on j-body.org
AGuSTiN wrote:

Really? Are you equally upset with all these employers skirting the hiring laws, too? What forum posts are you involved in at job hiring websites, blasting the illegal immigrants hirers? I want links.

Don't try to take the morality high road with me.


What? Dude, you're grasping at straws now. Don't you think that if you had cheap labor available in the country, you're going to hire that person who is willing to work less over the people who think they deserve more? It's only obvious. I don't blame them for hiring illegal workers. But that wouldn't be a problem if people wouldn't have illegaly came over in the first place.

Morality high road? I never bragged about doing anything good.

One problem I see is that all of these people are either illegal and/or Hispanic! You live in Southern California, you see how much of the population is Hispanic. You may see the occasional white person protesting, but most of them are hispanic. What have they got to lose if they protest!??!? Some of them don't even know what they're there for (some interviews on the local news prove that). Just imagine if all immigration from the Middle East was cut off completely... who would be protesting? Black people? I don't think so. The only reason there is so many people is because that's the only groups who are going out to protest against the cause!

Now everybody knows this... don't even deny it. If you saw a bunch of white people or black people protesting against immigration... whether it is a large or small group, don't you think they would be labeled racist? Isn't it not politically correct to not want more people in the country? That's the only reason you hear about these protests for immigration.





Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 2:16 PM on j-body.org
After looking at that picture closer, it proves my point. Look at some of the signs:

"united we wont be defeated".
This illegal immigration problem isn't a personal attack on Mexicans. Yet they like to think it is.

"racist lou dobbs cnn"
Look! He is considered a racist because of his views on illegal immigration!



Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 2:20 PM on j-body.org
Mikedirntrulez wrote:
What? Dude, you're grasping at straws now.


I'm grasping at straws? I responded to a bunch of things you said and this is the only thing you chose to rebutt?

Who's grasping at straws?

Mikedirntrulez wrote:
It is ILLEGAL and it always has been and always will be

...

but when they are ditching schools to protest



********** AND THEN ***********

Mikedirntrulez wrote:
Don't you think that if you had cheap labor available in the country, you're going to hire that person who is willing to work less over the people who think they deserve more? It's only obvious. I don't blame them for hiring illegal workers.


This is choice. "The illegals are breaking the law!!" "THAT IS THAT!!" It's all we hear.

But it's OK if the employers break the law. That's OK. Let's be hush hush about that.

The HEIGHT of hypocrisy.

You're either a hypocrite, a bigot, or irrational. Which is it?


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Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 2:24 PM on j-body.org
I just think that the Hispanic immigrants should be held to the high standards that other foreign nationals are held to when defecting to this country.
My friend Tony at work came here in the early 90's from China. He didn't know english or anything. He studied, learned english, learned a little US history, took the tests, etc. He did it the right way. I believe ALL immigrants should have to do it this way, regardless of what country they come from. If they don't, they're deported.


Desert Tuners

“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”


Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 2:30 PM on j-body.org
Read this for all those constantly misstating the situation...

http://blogdeser.blogspot.com/2006/04/how-stupid-are-us-media.html

Open letter to CNN and other mainstream US media outlets:

1. The vast majority of Hispanics/Latinos in the U.S. (75 percent of us) were born and raised here, including many of us who have roots here that predate the arrival of the pilgrims.

2. "Immigrant" is not synonymous with "Latino" and the media should stop pretending they mean the same thing.

3. The CNN analyst who said today "Keep in mind, Latino voters are LEGAL immigrants, not illegal immigrants" should be FIRED for sloppy thinking. MOST LATINOS ARE NOT IMMIGRANTS AT ALL, PINCHE CABRON.

4. Immigrants to contemporary USA come from EVERYWHERE. There are, for instance, 100,000 Nigerians in Houston http://listings.houstonpress.com/gyrobase/BestOf/BestOfAward?Year=oid%3A28908&Section=oid%3A28911&oid=oid%3A30627, and tens of thousands of ILLEGAL Irish http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:YWFLwUt4CEAJ:www.galwayadvertiser.ie/dws/story.tpl%3Finc%3D2004/10/07/news/51479.html+illegal+irish+in+boston&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3in Boston and other parts of the nation. If this debate is truly about immigration, as opposed to racist portrayals of Latinos, please curb your coverage to be more responsible.

5. Just because someone waves a Mexican or Colombian flag at a peaceful demonstration does not mean the demonstration is a "riot" or the people unAmerican. Lou Dobbs should get his panties out of a knot and realize it is no different than someone waving an Irish flag http://www.digave.com/couch/images/stpatty03/arrive.jpg in Southie or an Italian flag http://www.sfcolumbusday.org/ on Columbus Day. These flags are not waved as proof of national allegiance; they are waved in solidarity with a person's cultural heritage.

6. You can be a Mexican American and never have had an ancestor come over the US border; vast portions of the United States of today USED TO BE MEXICO or SPAIN. If you failed to learn this in high school, your teachers should be fired.

7. The vast majority of Hispanics/Latinos in the US speak English as a first language. The Pew Center for Hispanic research http://pewhispanic.org/ shows that by the third generation, all Latin American immigrant descendents - 100 percent of them - are English-first, English dominant. Zero percent speak Spanish as a first or primary language by the third generation.

8. The US has TWO international borders, not ONE. To date, not a single terrorist has gotten to the US through Mexico; to date, at least two suspected terrorists have arrived here through Canada. In fact, I would not be surprised if, while the media and xenophobes are focused on the Mexican border, terrorists figure out that it might be a good idea to walk over from Vancouver to Seattle for a latte. Oh, and all international anti-American terrorists who have come to the U.S. so far have been *smart* enough to come with passports and other documents supplied to them by the deep pockets of their organizations. Do you really think a terrorist from Saudi Arabia is going to think it's a good idea to swim over the border to Texas or Arizona with a bunch of Mexicans? How stupid is that?!? Finally, please remember that the anti-American terrorist Timothy McVeigh was not a foreigner, not brown, and not an illegal immigrant.

9. Not all Hispanics/Latinos are Mexican or of Mexican origin in the U.S., and most people of Mexican extraction in the US were born in the UNITED STATES.

10. Please check for plans to give Haliburton the contract to build a wall along the Mexican border before caving in to the right-wing propaganda about a "crisis" in immigration from Mexico.

11. Please be careful when you discuss these issues not to stereotype or overgeneralize. The anti-Latino frenzy you're creating is leading to a racist backlash against tens of millions of native-born Americans who happen to have Spanish names.

12. The following are also Spanish names: California, Arizona, Florida, Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Diego, Las Vegas. Why does CNN allow states, cities and rivers with Spanish names to be American, while disallowing American people with Spanish names the same right...? Mister Dobbs, you may no longer say the names of most states in the United States, because only thirteen U.S. states have English names; the rest are Spanish, French, or Native American. English-only, sir. Your rule, eh? Make up new names, change your ridiculous rhetoric, or stop talking about Los Angeles altogether.

13. Please tell us what the problems are that are caused by illegal immigrants. Don't just say there is a "debate." Tell us in concrete terms what the risks and dangers are being brought to the US by "illegal" immigrants. Now tell us how these problems, if any, differ from the problems caused by U.S. citizens of all other backgrounds. Be precise. Control for economics and educational background. Can't find any? Thought so.

14. Please remember that the least legal and least assimilable of American immigrants were...the English. And the only people who can claim to be true "Americans" are Native Americans.

15. Most Mexicans are Native Americans.

16. Shut up about this non-issue and get back to BEING JOURNALISTS, covering the REAL issues, like the illegal war in Iraq and the lies that got us there; the record-setting trade deficit; Bush's bankrupting of America; NSA's illegal wiretapping of American citizens; the fact that our public schools are MORE segregated than they were before Brown vs. the Board of Education; the fact that we as a nation have now slipped to having only the 27th freest press in the world; the Plame leak and the consequences of it being that Americans are much less safe than we were before Cheney and his friends played "revenge"; the disappearance of the American middle class and unions; the sorry state of the FAA; the rapid devaluation of the American dollar on the world market thanks to idiot leaders; the dismantling of the endangered species act by our administration; the rapid and unprecedented rise of a white underclass (the fastest rise in poor whites in American history has occurred under Bush); the enormous and growing gap between rich and poor in America.

All best,

Alisa Valdes-Rodriguez


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Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 2:31 PM on j-body.org
Mikedirntrulez wrote:After looking at that picture closer, it proves my point. Look at some of the signs:

"united we wont be defeated".
This illegal immigration problem isn't a personal attack on Mexicans. Yet they like to think it is.


You need to watch the movie "Walkout", currently showing on HBO. It's about Mexican-Americans, in East LA, during the 1960's.

Watch it.


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Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 6:04 PM on j-body.org
I think they should all be sent back i'm AMERICAN with hispanic ancestors, i'm not mexican american, thy should all be sent back and te employers that employ them should be fined the only reason illegals get jobs and americans don't is becuase the employers get the cheapest people they can get. it has nothing to with americans not taking them. It has to do with the employers getting the illegals for pennies a day and not wanting to pay the full min. wage. for the kids that walk out send them too who cares if their doing it for their parents if their so proud of their trashy country they can go and live in it they are obviously not proud of america. Half of them walked out of school just to get out of school most on my news channells didn't even know what was going on they just left because a majority of them were leaving. yeah SADLY a MAJORITY they should have all been rallied into greyhounds and dropped off at the border stripped of any american creditials.



Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 8:12 PM on j-body.org
Illegal immigrants do not pay taxes
do not speak English and..
They work really really hard for less than minimum wage



I have a question.
Why do they have kids if they can't feed them?
They have the right to have all the kids they want, that's true.
If I can't afford having kids, I'm not having any. SIMPLE!! and I'm not sending my kid to another country to work and send me money because I can't get a job.
yall know what I think?
I think the U.S is the best country in the world; number one, because you can go to school, get a job and then buy birth-control to have sex
J/K!!!


Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 8:24 PM on j-body.org
AGuSTiN wrote:I'll make this real simple for all of you on Jackalopes side of the fence...

How are you going to win without crowds like these?...

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-immig26mar26,0,7628611.story?coll=la-home-headlines



Another 30 protests across the country scheduled for today.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/10/immigration/index.html



Daisy Cutter?

Just Kidding.




If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you're reading this in English, thank a veteran.
Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Monday, April 10, 2006 8:26 PM on j-body.org
I think Agustin made a very good point when he posted the letter that Alisa Valdes-Rodriguez wrote. I think everyone here just thinks that Mexicans are the only ones that are illegal imigrants.
Pretty soon it is not just gonna be Mexicans that are getting dicriminated against. It is gonna be every person of Latin decent. How do I know, well lets just say I live next to a racist that just told me to get the hell out of America. I just brushed it off cause I could care less about him.
It is the same thing that happened when we went to war. Everyone hated every Indian person when not one Indian person brought down the towers.
I am not even gonna comment on the last 2 posts LOL.



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