You know what, lets just change this into a thread about everybody favorite idea for a sleeper?

I've been playing around with the idea of rigging up a 3800 S/C in the trunk of my cavy for awhile... but that would take some mucho $$$.... but that would be FUN fabbing up and playing with afterwards


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe Im just pissed, pissed that my freinds are spineless, What else would you
call abandoment some night, when you're in a fight, and they could make things right?
Spineless. I miss some of my old friends, the ones who you could count on,
bet a huge amount on, the fact that they'd always have your back... Its like a kick in
the sack, just knowing, you've got nothing to fall back on. @!#$ this, Im done.

Ace140 wrote:You know what, lets just change this into a thread about everybody favorite idea for a sleeper?

I've been playing around with the idea of rigging up a 3800 S/C in the trunk of my cavy for awhile... but that would take some mucho $$$.... but that would be FUN fabbing up and playing with afterwards

Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! OH! Great idea!!!

My favorite idea for sleepers:

2002 Cadillac Escalade "Blingmobile" - Only it's not a Cadillac, it'd be a disguised and stripped Chevrolet Tahoe with no air, no power anything, no rear seats, no radio, no insulation and a fiberglass front end. It'd also have the normal 6.0 with a few tweaks. From the outside it looks like it was driven right off a rap video, inside it's all business. Finding a Tahoe (or even an Escalade) wouldn't be that hard. A ton get stolen every year and the impound lots are full of cheap examples with no interiors of mechanicals. An Escalade weighs 5500lbs, but I'll bet you could get that puppy down to 3500lbs to 4000lbs easy if you put it on a serious diet.

2006 Ford Ranger XL 2.3 Turbo - The base four banger in the Ranger is mechanically identical to the Mazda 2.3 Turbo in the Mazdaspeed3. So that's an easy 275hp right there in a vehicle that would look and SOUND stock. Not bad huh? Plus it's light as all hell and could be made lighter with a fiberglass front end/doors and box.

2001 Honda Insight with the manual transmission and NO ELECTRIC ENGINE. That thing is light as a feather (1841lbs) WITH air, a bunch of power options, that damned electric monstrosity and super heavy batteries. So imagine what would happen if you removed them. Now imagine what would happen if you tucked in a 200hp Honda 4 banger in there. I'm talking low 13's easy. Not as much of a sleeper as the first two, but it'd be wicked fast.

The best sleepers are like Ha-Ha-Ha's car. Vehicles that are credible in a tuner environment, but look slow and stock. You go in there in a Taurus or a Minivan and it'd be setting off alarm bells. But go in there in a car that looks like all the money went on the wheels, and you'll be accepted as a brother in arms.

kidduntradishunal wrote:Nothing is a bigger piss of then some self proclaimed hero of horsepower building up a 'sleeper' street car to own cars three times it's value. Perhaps this wouldn't be such a distasteful notion if the prospective vehicles these particular morons choose to do this with weren't such @!#$boxes.

I say the only reason some people in particular deem their vehicles 'sleepers' is because they are too lazy or completely unconcerned with the appearance of their ride. Excuse me, but the whole point of being involved the scene is to personalize your car. I'm not stating an opinion, as far as I am concerned, I'm stating a fact. Besides providing your vehicle with better intakes and exhuasts and adding more ponies under the hood to improve your performance, you also add your own touch to the exterior in whatever taste you may have. It's all about straight, clean modified rides. They get the magazine coverage for a reason, 'sleepers' are like hits of cocaine, they give you quick rush then you @!#$ crash and fail at life.

Case example: Buddy has a EG body hatch Civic. Honda-rotted rear quarters, been in multiple accidents without being properly repaired afterwards, and it's in about 3 colours. Underneath his mangled hood lies a young B18 base swap. Sitting in his garage is a newly acquired B16A2 V-tec and goodies to boost it. Congrats, idiot. When all is said and done your car will be boosted scrap metal.

What in the @!#$ hell is admirable about that? NOTHING. I'm embarassed to park next to him. I talk mods with him and he just whines about not being able to do his B16A2 turbo swap yet, while I'm considering bodyworking and maintaining my car. Once this swap is done, he'll still be rolling on stock rims with baldy-Michelin all seasons, stock breaks and whatnot.

@!#$ RETARDED! THIS IS WHY EURO AND JAP TUNERS MOCK US. 'Straight line car' MY ASS. These sort of people give me urges to sandblast their faces then dump a drum of acetone on them.

The Cliff Notes:
SLEEPER: def 1; Someone who concerns themselves with creating tin-can rockets that appear as if ready for scrap but in reality will smoke you off the line. The end result, you're not embarassed to drive your slower, cleaner car while they are impaled in the hydropole down the road due to all-season tires and stock brakes in a 400 whp @!#$box. def2; PISS POOR excuse to not do the neccessary bodywork or modification to make such car even 'presentable' in public

sounds like someone is pissed off that their car is slow as @!#$

(EDIT)
It seems this post is mostly about your friend's POS car with a powerful engine, I suggest you take up your problems with him and not take a stab at a very large quantity of modified cars that are otherwise much faster than stock counterparts. Not all sleepers look like garbage. My car is pretty much stock on the outside except for the rear bumper which is primer (I plan on getting my import fighter kit painted this spring so I can install it in time for nice weather)

Bodywork and looks, however, are NOT the most important thing to me.
Performance is, and this includes repair and maintenence since both have an adverse effect on performance.

You confuse a sleeper with a car thats in a morbid state of disrepair. A sleeper may LOOK like its in disrepair, but in actuality, it should be performing at the top of its game in all categories (acceleration, deceleration and handling). A sleeper lacking any quality is a car not finished.

One of the first rules of modifying for performance is to fix anything thats broken in that area (if you're upgrading brakes, make sure the rears are functioning properly or check lines for leaks, master cylinder, etc) If you're modifying the engine make sure you don't have any leaks, there's no taps or knocks, compression is good, etc etc so a "sleeper" that has all the horsepower in the world but is riding on broken suspension is not a sleeper.. its a fool's chariot

Is my car clean? sometimes.
Do I wash it regularly? not really.. in fact I should probably wash it more (rubber is really hard to get off btw)

a car thats 'presentable' to you and 'presentable' to me is different, as has been discussed and debated in this thread already so I won't beat that dead horse anymore than this sentence.

But to counter, I think its hilarious when kids spend hours upon hours waxing and detailing their cars, putting fancy, heavy rims on it with overly wide tires (for all that traction you need for 100whp), and spend tons of money on the interior making it look like a racecar with seats and 4 pt harnesses, gauges the glow blue, make their fenders and front bumper one peice thus making body repairs in the case of an accident or minor impact impossible without destroying all the work, take off door handles and locks, and all the numerous other things thats done when their engine doesn't see more than an intake and wire loom and a ractive muffler welded to the stock pipe.

I take more pleasure in seeing people pull over on the return road at the track, and pop their hood to see if something is wrong with their car because I spanked them so bad.




Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Thursday, December 28, 2006 7:39 AM

fun sleepers are anything small like geos, festivas, aspires, etc. just put in an engine from the next size up car and theyll fly! i think a festiva with a v8 SHO taurus engine would be pretty sweet or any of the mazda engines like ^^^ above

A few years back there was a Dodge Colt at the drag strip. It was spray paint orange (not evenly coated either) and by all apperances just looked like someones beater. It might have been a beater, but it was pulling low 13's I love cars like that, and if you don't, oh well!


Best quarter mile to date - 15.750 @ 85.82
"We ride together, we die together. Bad Boys for life"

Nimbus 9, some friends of my that rock! Click and experience them for yourself

CavFire (tabs) aka tabasco wrote:fun sleepers are anything small like geos, festivas, aspires, etc. just put in an engine from the next size up car and theyll fly! i think a festiva with a v8 SHO taurus engine would be pretty sweet or any of the mazda engines like ^^^ above

It's amazing how many kids today don't know anything about engine swaps, or that it's even possible! Even with FWD it's a fairly simple procedure. A lot less time consuming that @#$!& bodywork anyway. I hate doing body like you wouldn't believe. It's dirty, takes weeks, and in the end you just wish you'd bough the damn fender at the junkyard for 50$ instead of redoing it yourself. There's no joy in bodywork for me.

The only thing that'd scare me with those tiny cars is that they can't brake for squat even with their miniscule engines. Imagine with 100hp more! *shudder* Jermy likes to go go go, but Jermy likes to stop too.

on the note of bodywork:

if you drive your car, its going to get dented and scratched

I don't want to pull dents and repaint my car every 2 weeks. Its a street car thats driven, and driven hard

ToBoGgAn wrote:

kidduntradishunal wrote:And here I thought this was an intelligent debate forum. Clearly half of you are barely reading my posts and just responding with your own rants. Perhaps if you read everything I wrote, I'd get a less hostile, more intelligent argumentive response. This is a F(@*&ING DISCUSSION! NOT A FLAME FEST!

I'm going on 20. You think my taste in music determines my intelligence level? Cute. I've actually been inside an engine compartment. It's my @!#$ job. I make the younger co-op and apprentice morons push the damn broom. Perhaps the reason my car registry is so lack-lustre is because I'm not swimming in money personally? Yes, just perhaps. Like any of you, I have a vision for my ride.. and it hardly invovles your stereotypical rice gear. So quick to shut me down, yet not quick enough to put reasoning behind your flaming.

And I hardly live under any supposed rock. I've intermixed with many modders here and there, I apologize for my generalities, but it seems the most of you are no better with yours towards me. This obsession with HP is almost childish to me. Okay, it's fun. It's fast. It's a @!#$ rush. Great. For the most part, my prejudices towards the sleeper style have not been disproven. Nor do half these replies seem to offer me any reason to change my thinking.

I appreciate some of the intelligent feedback, it's good to hear some of the more involved builds with these old muscle cars getting the right equipment to match their engines. I can honestly admit I haven't seen or heard much of real sleepers with proper equipment (street rods and muscle restorations don't exactly fit). I've hard of a few here and there involving J-bodies (Sweetness Sunfire, the V8 smallblock Chev Cavalier that went up on E-bay) but for the most part I just witness dumb kids obsessed with speed (no concern for anything else).

kidduntradishunal wrote:And here I thought this was an intelligent debate forum.

first mistake

kidduntradishunal wrote:Perhaps the reason my car registry is so lack-lustre is because I'm not swimming in money personally? Yes, just perhaps. Like any of you, I have a vision for my ride.. and it hardly invovles your stereotypical rice gear. So quick to shut me down, yet not quick enough to put reasoning behind your flaming.

So where is the "more money than most people pay for rent yearly" going to, it can't all be euro spec oils and lubricants? oh you must be comparing yourself to homeowners, yeah we don't pay rent so i guess your right.

kidduntradishunal wrote:I appreciate some of the intelligent feedback, it's good to hear some of the more involved builds with these old muscle cars getting the right equipment to match their engines. I can honestly admit I haven't seen or heard much of real sleepers with proper equipment (street rods and muscle restorations don't exactly fit). I've hard of a few here and there involving J-bodies (Sweetness Sunfire, the V8 smallblock Chev Cavalier that went up on E-bay) but for the most part I just witness dumb kids obsessed with speed (no concern for anything else).

for someone so concerned aboot the proper equipment i would like to compliment you on the awesome choice of your GR-2s and sportlines, also, great call on blacking out your headlights so those silverstars don't melt oncoming traffic. alert, you in the glass house, put the stones down, i repeat, put the stones down.

my car is very stock looking, IMHO, yet numerous times i have been asked how i like my sebring,, and i let them know it's really a cavalier. yet i still love my lil vert.

go choke down another bottle of summer's eve before replying

I love how he's all against driving a half-assed sleeper because it's unsafe, but drives on GR2s and sportlines.

GR2s are not made for a drop. They are OEM grade struts, which are not made to control a drop that low.


BTW
Sleepers are cool. End of discussion.

and defends his own unsafe actions as though they are different than what he "knows" the evil sleepers owners do to make their cars unsafe

i bet when he takes his shirt off you can read massengil across his chest

Ace140 wrote: Where are you going to find a metro that looks cool/nice? You aren't. Because you couldnt make one if you wanted to.

Actually, believe it or not, yes you can. SSGTI.net






Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!

kidduntradishunal wrote:Okay.. assumptions solve nothing. I could care less about going fast and racing. That's how you destroy your driving record and your ability to drive legally. His car owns me all day long, but guess what.. I'm not embarassed to admit I own that clean, nice Cav in the parking lot. My friend kind of has to put on his best smile to admit he owns that Civic.

Obviously my point wasn't made. WHO GIVES A @!#$ HOW FAST YOUR CAR IS IF IT LOOKS LIKE @!#$. And stock = @!#$. My point is that there is no thought put into a sleeper besides how much money you've dumped into your engine bay. How creative can that be? It's not, it's more or less purely mechanical. I am being highly opinionated (point of this particular forum area... ??), but as far as I am concerned a car should look as fast as it is, at least. They'd NEVER sell a Ferarri that looked like a Tuarus. They'd never sell a Tuarus with the power of a Ferarri. It doesn't fit and just doesn't make sense, especially to me.

Form over function, function over form. You don't neccessarily have to choose, but you don't see sponsors lining up for a base model Cavalier turbo. I understand everyone builds to their own taste, which I can appreciate. The fact that bothers me is people really defending this 'sleeper' @!#$. It really isn't that impressive that your base model unibody tin-can has the ability to smoke a highly engineered sports car of a different class of automobile. If I had a Lotus Elise and got owned at the track by a Civic, I'd applaud the driver and his vehicle's ability.. but it wouldn't drop my jaw. I could care less.. if it was the cleanest, nicest modded Civic I've ever laid eyes on.. then I'd be more interested to find out more.

It takes FAR more thought to build a highly competitive show car then it does to build a monster sleeper. Sure, you get creative with your turbo plumbing and different tricks under the hood and such, but to be fresh in the show scene takes a great deal of creative ability..

(ps. Big wings and stickers need not apply, I have @!#$ taste, btw)

bold text : and how creative is putting a bodykit on your car that thousands of other people have...not only that but there are so many more decisions to make on what parts to put on your engine than there is to put body panels on the outside.

as far as the definition of sleeper i think some people have different definitions. I think a sleeper is simply a car that you look at and wouldnt expect to be fast....whether it be a neon with a body kit or a stock trim cavalier. Any neon or cavalier that is fast id call a sleeper because you dont expect it. Personally i think most cars with universal style bodykits (the bodykit they make a similar style and fit it to various models) look gay. As a matter of fact i think most cars with kits look gay, if you want to "customize" your car make your own design or modify the kit to personalize it but dont tell me that because your car has a bodykit and rims that its "custom." On cavaliers i do like how the type-j kit and gravana kits look....if i was building a show car id rock them but im not, i just want a fast, clean car.

last point....if you are bitching because people like to make their car fast you are @!#$ retarded....did you buy your car to just make it look pretty and drive around town doing the speed limit and never take it to the track or anything like that? Check you pants, you might have a vagina....ever since the beginning people in the car scene were into going fast....it wasnt until the sport compact scene came around where the ricers came out of the woodwork driving around stock civics and neons and @!#$, even cavaliers with bodykits and ebay mufflers on stock piping. Just because your buddy likes to go fast and doesnt care about looking good doesnt mean you have to bitch....ever think he says the same about you driving a car that you want to make look good and that is slow as @!#$....think about it

and if you are pissed that your car is slow go buy a honda and quit yer bitchen





2007 GM Tuner Bash...HELL YEA
PA,MD,NJ,DE,NY and all states north caravan

Guys, I'm not here to personally bust all your @!#$ nuts. My idea of a nice ride is ACTUAL custom work. Take that bolt-on and modify to your tastes. Take that bodykit, bodywork it in or add your own details. I'm not supporting a bolt-on nation either. I really do enjoy seeing people doing one-off things, and yeah, that does include engine mods.

As mentioned before, my registry sucks. Perhaps I'm not able to do all my one-off mods to my daily driver. Perhaps the cams I'm after and the 2.3 HO parts I'm hunting down haven't been able to be acquired yet. I DO plan on engine mods, but I also plan on working the body up from stock. I'm turning 20 in a few days, I'm in no financial situation to take the car to the level I want, but I try.

And also, as mentioned before, before you just cut up my posts and pick on certain statements, read all I've written. GR-2s are not OEM. OEM are AC Delco hydrualic shocks/struts. GR-2s are gas charged, OEM spec shocks. They are by no means the best of the best, but they are better then OEM equipment. Money dictated this decision.

Racing experience? Vagina? What an insult. I've posted that I have been in racing. 2 and a half years in a stockcar series. I've built a Prelude, a CRX and a EG Hatch. I've helped build a '82 Monte Carlo for my dad. I've swapped engines, built custom rollcages, done wiring harnesses, know the difference it makes to have 21 PSI on the left front as opposed to 25 PSI on the right front. Weight distribution. Fuel cells and whatnot. I know about going fast, maybe not an expert, but not a @!#$ noob either.

If you want to know what I'd like to build as a sleeper, it'd be a Toyota Tercel with the JDM turbo motor they had in those cars overseas. That is a cheap, simple sleeper. But said car wouldn't be rolling steel rims. It wouldn't have the stock granny gray bumpers. It'd be bodyworked as well.

Toyota Aristo, converted to Lexus spec, dump the interior, put in limo tint. build the engine with a 2jz engine and 6speed. Run giganto-blingbling donk rims and skinny-ass rubber, or, go with beat up stock rims and stock sized rubber.

Now PLEASE tell me this is something you'd roll up on and not worry about just sailing by.

Other than that,1990's Chev caprice, LS6 engine and STS turbo kit, Corvette suspension.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

If i had the cash, how about stock Sunfire, RWD conversion, drop in a GNX engine.

Who cares if it is a waste of money, it's what I want to spend my money on. Hll, i look at the cars with the bodykits, wings, and the fartpipe and the fist thing that comes to mind is "does it cut grass too?", but hey, thats there thing.

Now, if someone converted their car like that to *actually* cut grass, i'd be laughing my balls off and congratulate them for sheer ingenuity.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Yep, all you need for a conversion is :

� 10-horsepower Briggs & Stratton lawn-mower engine
� 48-inch triangular Delta Deck mower
� three cylindrical rotating blades
� gold-wire rims
� and some House of Kolor paint

Begin by throwing out the back seat, muffler and catalytic converter. Then add a 10-horsepower Briggs & Stratton lawn-mower engine and a 48-inch triangular Delta Deck mower, installed underneath the car, just behind the rear wheels.

Then you also attach three cylindrical rotating blades to the doors and the rear of the car. Levers inside the cockpit lower both the Delta Deck and the rear cylindrical mower.

Now it's ready for its custom paint job. The base coat should be lime-green pearl, over which an ice-gold pearl coat will be sprayed. Lime-green metal flake should be applied over that, followed by two coats of lime-green candy-apple paint. For the flame paint details, use a black smoke outline and a "Kameleon" green-to-silver top coat . A final clear coat should seal the deal, after which fit it with gold-wire rims (made with 100 spokes apiece).





Thanks Jesse

^^^ditch the blades on the doors, add a huge wing for a walk-behind car


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

I will never have a body kit or a wing until EVERYTHING PERFORMANCE-WISE is done to my car which will may very well be never. I think my car would be a very fast sleeper if I had boost and a bottle. I got a lot done performance-wise, but there's still things that I want to get. Won't be getting anything for a good while except for normal maintenance items.

Performance wise (for me), maybe a tie bar for the center of the body, LSD, big brake kit and rear conversion, supercharger, probably won't get a bottle, the 2.3 oil conversion sounds nice. (feel free to add ideas).

As for looks my car is stock except for the wheels and tail lights. For my taste I added enough *bling* to my car. Just changed the tail lights ( carbon fiber) to make it look a little different. And YES I have headlight( carbon fiber) and turn signal covers. I also got the nifty ventshades for the front windows. I got CF door thresholds.

I got a system too, the same one I've had for almost 8 or 9 years.

My stock body kit is fine for me.

My car is faster than it looks (sleeper?) and it don't look bad. I just need a paint job cause my hood is all chipped up. That's from a winter accident. My car shoulda sat inside for a couple weeks but I needed it to work, so the paint didn't have the time to dry and harden properly. Winter sucks if you need a paint job and only have 1 car.

^^^keep in mind, though, A LOT of the body kits out there hurt, and not help performance. Stock-wise, we don't need a rear spolier, and any other front clip increases aerodynamic drag, rather than reducing it. Even if we'd get fast enough to warrant a spoiler in the reat to increase stability in the twisties, we don't need ont that looks like someone ripped it off of a 747.

Performance-wise, of course.

In many cases, if you're going to go performance, i've noticed the best thing to do its to remain stock with as much as possible, except things that will help performance in the realm of performance you want (souping up a car for the twisties is different than rally and different than dragging). But once you get beyond the basics, you can't really have a show car for balls-to-the-wall (picture of Udo riding a wrecking ball into a brick-and-mortar building) performance, without tearing the ass out of the looks, and you can't have a performance care look like a show car without it hurting the performance.

But all-in-all, the debate is moot. If it's all about customization then it's all abotu what you want, not what other think is good. But, that doesn't let you off the hook for being laugh at if you try something dumb (turbo'ing without beefing up the internals to handle the boost or epoxying a lampshade to the hood to mimic a ram-air induction). Just don't let the criticisms get to you .


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

hehe my motor is pretty much brand new (internals done for the most part) except for the head (which needs a P&P) and the block.

I completely get what Kid's saying...just the execution is all wrong for getting the point across.

I'm all for sleepers though....nothing dangerous or unsafe, just fun. Take for example my old 1989 Plymouth Voyager turbo.....baby blue with peeling paint and rust on the roof.....paid $750 for it. I maybe payed that much for engine mods....probably less. 2.5 intercooled turbo with 15 pounds of boost, open downpipe, gutted interior, my Enforcer turbo started service on that van before migrating to the Daytona. I don't know how many Mustangs and stock Z28 Camaros I wasted in that thing. I always got a positive response from people....thumbs up, "hell yeah"'s...it was great to waste "performance" cars in a minivan.

any of the dodge/plymouth mini's that came turboed and are even slightly modified for performance are definitely sleepers. [/discussion]

It's too late to be a sleeper today, but I always thought that a good late 80's sleeper would have been a 1976 Plymouth Feather Duster with a Turbo and Hyperpack 4bbl performance kit on it's slant six. Car had all kind's of aluminum parts and weighed nothing. With about 250hp that thing would have flown.

The 80's Chrysler Turbos are an awesome idea. I totally agree. Chrysler would put Turbo's in ANYTHING. Vans, luxury cars, station wagons, you name it. And they're easy to make fast. You see a lot of Omni's being modified because those were the lightest cars with a Turbo and manual tranny, but even a LeBaron isn't THAT heavy and it'll move if you screw around with it enough.

Heck yeah...I'd love a turbo '86 Chrysler Town And Country station wagon with woodgrain panels and wire hubcaps. Bigger turbo, bigger injectors, alky injection and 3" exhaust...with the Minivan rotors and calipers (SLH package) and Shelby Daytona suspension.....that thing would be soooo tough. You could probably do all that for the price of a used Fox Body in decent shape.
This is "Serious Wood", RIP. *sniff*

Knoxfire wrote:

The 80's Chrysler Turbos are an awesome idea. I totally agree. Chrysler would put Turbo's in ANYTHING. Vans, luxury cars, station wagons, you name it. And they're easy to make fast. You see a lot of Omni's being modified because those were the lightest cars with a Turbo and manual tranny, but even a LeBaron isn't THAT heavy and it'll move if you screw around with it enough.

Forward Motion Enforcer turbo with bigger compressor wheel and polished compressor housing, open downpipe, '88 turbo roller cam, stainless braided turbo lines, copper head shim and Mopar Performance headgasket and bolts, new Mahle pistons, new rings and new rod bearings, balance shafts removed, A/C delete, NGK BR9ES recessed tip plugs, completely gutted interior, custom trans cooler and radiator/intercooler combo from VNT Daytona....boost is only 10 PSI until I get a DD.

omni GLHs were a stock sleeper, if there is one, as well

I didn't take the time to read this whole thread, so to the thread starter:

Sounds like you got beat by a sleeper and you got butt hurt. Sleepers are the @!#$, there is a 9 second Nova out there that looks completely stock on the outside AND the inside.. once you pop the hood or trunk it's all over though.

Some people like to spend all of their money on go fast parts, and not worry about wasting any money on good looking parts. I want to make my car look almost as stock as it can get, but run 11's or 12's in the 1/4. Sleepers are fun as hell, you can pull up next to someone at the stoplight and they think they got you.. but all of the sudden you just completely blow their doors off in a stock looking car, and they don't know what hit them.. yes, that's ultimate right there. Like a bone stock looking Cavvy running a 12, now that's a freaking sleeper. Imagine the looks you would get from the people you race once you take off and blow their ass away.

More people respect a sleeper, because they just simply rule.



1983 Camaro Z28