that's quoted for truth, right there...
it's a double standard...
That was awesome. Perfectly put...
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Quote:
"GTFO, you don't represent US!!" to those freaks.
Let me ask you this: Why don't you tell American criminals and gang members to GTFO because they represent America in a bad way....?
You are demanding something that cannot be accomplished by people saying "GTFO." It's a much deeper issue that is buried deep into the political systems of the countries in question and the countries that are demanding these impossible actions by "regular citizens of a country."
i dont care about the cartoons, i say we blow up all those arab threats and be done with it and get our oil, so we can get some decent gas prices!!!
The crusades worked out oh so well too.
There's a difference between Muslims that are followers of the qur'ran and those that follow a radical Mullah or Ayatollah. Just like the difference between Christians that follow the teachings of the Bible, and those that followed David Koresh.
The difference: Reading what's in the book and contextualising within the time and the rest of the book, versus reading what's in the book and contextualising what the teacher says the book is saying.
Think of it like this: You can read George Orwell - 1984 in 2 ways. Read it either as a warning of what Communism could come to if it became a world wide phenomenae and progressed into the totalitarianism of Oligarchy. Opposingly, you can read it as a treatise on how to cow a populace that may rise up by giving them a false pariah, and focusing them on that, thereby giving the society a rally-point and diverting their attention from how bad they really have it.
Want more?
Mein Kampf
Satanic Verses
The collected writings of Chairman Mao.
The list is long and controversial.
You're dealing with a population (in the mid-east I should say) that are not only impoverished on the whole, but, are generally illiterate, put-upon and hopeless. Fertile grounds like this were last seen in Germany in 1936, China post 1945, Russia in 1917, and you got the Nazis, Chinese Communists, and the Bolsheviks out of those eras.
Now, you have a population that has not JUST nationalism, but religious ire and riteous indignation.... and you have the next BIG PROBLEM. The answer isn't bombs... it's vigilence and understanding of the nature of the people you're dealing with. This isn't, as yet, something that we in the west have been very good at fostering.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Quote:
Let me ask you this: Why don't you tell American criminals and gang members to GTFO because they represent America in a bad way....?
Thats not the same... all countries have common criminals... these extremists are murderers pure and simple.
From that video that was posted on this thread... these Muslims have signs that say "Europe, your 9-11 is next", "behead those who insult Islam", and "slaughter those who slander the prophet".... seriously are these things that normal demonstrators say at a protest? Do American protestors do anything close to this or say this stuff, and MEAN IT? I don't know where these pictures and mobs were located but I hope they are in a MidEast country because I wouldnt want these types in the US thats for sure... the police should just shoot them cuz they are all terrorists and/or suicide bombers in the making.
Back on point, after the DOZENS of Muslim extremist acts of violence, why didn't Muslim protestor come out and PUBLICALLY make a big deal of it? Why didn't they come out in outrage and carry signs that say "death to terrorists"? There is something wrong if a cartoon inspires cold-blooded threat!
Spitfire: The same can be said of the David Koresh incident. The only group to publically distance themselves were the 7th day adventists.
I see the point, but really, if there were public denouncements of militant actions (there are actually, Omni 1 & 2 in Toronto have op-ed time-fillers with different viewpoints on things and people read their opinions), they're not going to grab as much attention as radicalists. There's being insulted and then there's going a WEE bit too far.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Its a damn shame that the few ( ok thousands ) of radical terrorists can hi-jack an intire religion and turn the whole world agaist it. Its a further shame that the good muslims can't sack up and do something to stop these freaks. I'm all for being a peace loveing do unto others sort of guy but ya know what if those wackos were part of my religion I think I may just have to do something about them. If not who will? So if the rest of the muslim world is content to sit back and do nothing to stop these guys then why are they so surprised and offended that the rest of us are starting to think them all the same.
And if they're not all the same why then do none of them do anything to stop these guys? Why then don't you see the clerics on TV condemming the kidnappers and terrorists? Why don't any of the "good" muslims go riot in the streets when the "bad"
muslims do something horrible in the name of their god? I know I'd be pissed as hell if someone murdered thousands of innocent people in the name of my god and in my name. But it seems you guys are perfectly content to sit back and do nothing till the rest of the world starts to get pissed enough to say something. THEN your all gung-ho to defend Islam and muslims everywhere. Sorry YOU gave up that right when YOU gave up YOUR religion to terrorist. This sh-t keeps up and these guys are gonna get the holy war they want. But don't forget rocks don't do sh-t to tanks.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jack: again, there are a lot of Muslims that want the violence stopped. The more vocal ones (squeaky wheel gets the oil?) are the ones that get the press/screen time.
One of my friends is muslim and he's been saying for years that the uprisings haven't worked in about 40 years, so why bother keeping it up? It's all very theatrical, and it doesn't accomplish anything except make Islam the target as opposed to the criminals.
There are better ways to get a point across, but a lot of muslims don't want to countenace, or give creedence by addressing these people as muslims.
I can't agree with it, but I see what he's trying to say, if you don't acknowledge them, they're not a part of your group.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Gam, I see where your coming from really I do. I don't know if that came off wrong or not but I think its a shame that the terrorists have hi-jacked Islam in the way that they have..
But in the same light I think its far worse that the rest of the Muslims just sit back and do nothing to prevent their religion from being dragged thru the mud and its good name soiled by those who would use it for their own mostly political gain and the religion itself be damned in the process. I think that things, saddly, will get worse much worse before the good people of islam finaly get sick of what a small group of nuts is doing to their religion. Hopefully by the time the rest of the Muslim world wakes up and does something to stop these guys before their religions good name is completly destroyed
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
I probably misread what you were saying Jack, I agree.
I think that at this particular stage in Islam's development (IIRC, its about 400 years old? help me out here upstate) there are still radical factions vying for control over what interpretation is predominant. The sad thing is that, like Christianity, there are multiple factions willing to dispose of those that do not follow at all, or sadly, do not follow THEIR track.
The even sadder thing, is that the moderates that want peace are either cowed by the violent nature of the others, and don't want to seem unfaithful the religion. They're damned if the condemn the violence, and damned if they denounce it.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
They need to dis bar them or do whatever they can to distance themselves so they don't get blamed as well. In MD we have a guy on death row whos gonna get the needle this week cause he was with some people who killed 2 kids for no reason. They were the wrong kids in the wrong place type deal. Anyway he was found guilty and will now die because he was with the wrong people. Same could be said for the Muslims who sit by and watch their religion go down the drain.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
All that I've wanted to say has been said before.
The muslime silence against acts of terror by muslims parallels christian silence against acts of terror.
It seems to me the the problem is not muslims or chritians, per se, the problem is people dumb enough to believe what is told and people being WAYYYYYYYY too uptight. I say this because there have been MANY cheapshots taken at the pagan religioons, but we've pretty mych led them slide except for a few members, upon whom we've shown our displeasure. Now, the monotheists have the "evil" finger pointed at them and they're acting like a bunch of mealy-mouthed malcontents.
So, there is some justice.
I think that really, the problem is that people are too stupid in general to realize that they are taking religion too seriously. After all, the problems are coming not the the practitioners of the religion, but the leaders of the religion.
I think this piece taken from
DNRC Newsletter #58 fits it best:
Quote:
As you know, the best way to solve a problem is to identify the core belief that causes the problem; then mock that belief until the people who hold it insist that you heard them wrong.
The core belief that drives terrorism is the notion of a "holy place," along with the idea that some people belong there and other people don't. That's why the only solution to terrorism is for religious scholars to hold a global summit to agree on the definition of "holy place." Once they agree on a definition, it will be easier to mock it into submission.
At some point during the summit, probably after a week or so, the scholars would tire of saying to each other, "Nice hat" and asking, "What setting do you use to trim your ratty beard?" Then they'd get down to the business of defining what makes a place holy. Someone would suggest that the key things are the location and the fact that something holy happened there. Eventually, someone with a second-grade understanding of space, possibly the busboy, would point out that everything in the universe has moved a gazillion miles since the holy event, and the concept of location is meaningless unless all the reference points stay put. The best-case scenario is that the "holy place" is now a billion miles away, floating in empty space.
After some embarrassed mumbling, the scholars would insist that they knew all along that location wasn't important. One of them would break the awkwardness by suggesting that a holy place must be defined by the "stuff" that comprises it. That's good news, because the Middle East is made entirely of dirt. The wise King Solomon probably would have advised people to help themselves to as much holy dirt as they wanted. He might have gone so far as to suggest that people put holy dirt in their socks so they can enjoy walking on it wherever they go. But first he would have invented socks and patented the idea, because in addition to being wise, he had a good head for business.
Religious scholars should also help the rest of us understand the question of holy depth. Is it just the top layer of soil that's holy, or does the holiness continue lower into the ground? It's important because if there's no bottom limit, then whatever is on the exact opposite side of the earth is also holy, only upside down. The residents would have to stand on their heads to get the full benefit of the holy rays, but it would be worth it.
Feel free to forward this Holy Place argument to any Induhviduals who need the enlightenment that comes from having their core beliefs mocked. I can't guarantee that this will stop terrorism, but whatever you're doing now isn't working.
If you want more thought-provoking ideas in the same realm, check out my new book, The Religion War. It's a sequel to my non-Dilbert book, God's Debris. It's guaranteed to become a collector's item after al-Qaeda gets me. And it's ideal for book clubs and people who like to have their preconceived notions tweaked.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Keeper, I lost you. Why should the other religions scream over what the terrorists are doing ? They do condem the cowardly acts carried out by these.... well, cowards. But Christianity nor Jewdism are being used as a guise to kill innocent people by the thousands. Please see my above posts as to my stance on this so you not think me as anti Islam nor anti Muslim.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
I think the middle east is probably one of the heaviest armed populations in the world.. add a reward for killing people with different religious views, a greater reward for killing yourself in the name of your perspective god, a family that is required by your religion to house and protect you(even if they don't believe what you believe), and you have a serious F'ing problem..
Jack, i take it the events in Northern Ireland and in Israel aren't jogging your memory.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Northern Ireland and Israel are both countire that were occupied by someone else. They did not use religion as an excuss to kill like these guys are. They were trying to defend their home land from an outside force trying to take it over. In Ireland it was the English and in Israel its still the Jews pushing the palistiniens out of thier homes.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
I have read a number of books dealing with muslim culture and religion lately and it made me think about the things happening around the world now...
First of all, I really think that the cartoons are scandalous, not because the muslims are outraged but for the simple fact that non-muslim, supposedly civilized and democratic, part of world has NO good taste whatsever when it comes to media exposure and allows journalists (them especially) to do whatever they want under the pretense of "free speech".
Regardless of whether muslim reaction is justified or not who are you to judge whether it is insulting or not to depict someone elses religious leader in a scandalous, and above all, wrong manner... the large majority of muslims does not support terrorists, especially ones outside of those few arab countries. Good comparison would be the Pope helping Hitler out with the machine gun in killing a row of Jews, since it is well known that Vatican did a lot to harbor and help nazis move to south america after the WW2.
Now imagine the picture of Pope helping Hitler out in killing Jews and think of the chaos that would cause in the religious "democratic" communities in catholic christian countries. They might not burn the embassies but there would be dead bodies here and there I assure you.
I don`t think that what muslims did in rioting was justified, on the contrary i see it as stupid and uncivilized. Be sure that their governments did nothing to stop them - because it serves their policy to have people hating the westerners - they rule more easily. But does it depict a reaction of an average muslim to cartoons - no it doesn`t, but when did the western media show the reaction of moderate muslims first anyway ???
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I don't care what religion you follow, or what beliefs you choose to have. If you are offended by
anyone making a mockery of your religion, you have serious faith issues. And you clearly need to do some long, hard "soul searching".
Jackalope wrote:Northern Ireland and Israel are both countire that were occupied by someone else. They did not use religion as an excuss to kill like these guys are. They were trying to defend their home land from an outside force trying to take it over. In Ireland it was the English and in Israel its still the Jews pushing the palistiniens out of thier homes.
Jack: Actually, it wasn't JUST English/Irish... it had become Protestant vs. Catholic in the ulster counties in the early 70's.
Ulster Unionists and
Loyal Order of Orange (Orangemen) are predominantly Protestant, and viewed Irish Republicans as Catholic filth.. even though about 90% of them had gaelic Catholic family of some stripe, either Irish, Scottish or Welsh. On the other hand, the
IRA and
Sinn Féin and several other Republic of Ireland reconciliation groups remain for the greater part Catholic.
Put it this way, the religious aspect didn't stop anyone from meteing out doses of high explosives on the other.
Islam is similar, but instead of Protestants and Catholics, it's Muslims and the rest of the world basically.
Also, Jewish fundamentalist groups have been pushing for the utter destruction of the muslim state of Palestine, and have forever been against every other religion (including Christianity) claiming Israel or parts of it as their holy land. The problem is that the area is the well spring for 3 major world religions, and everyone wants to have sole dominion over the region.
Basically, Christianity has the generally inept like Jerry Falwell, Jimmy Swaggart, and Pat Robertson, these people have called out for the killing of Gays and lesbians, heads of state with whom the US has issue with, and other religions for the betterment of Christianity (they're not called the American Taliban because it's shocking, it's wryly fitting). When was the last time you saw the American College of Cardinals publically distancing themselves from those jokers? Presbyterian Congress? Other high profile Christian organisations?
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Just found this...interesting read
Quote:
MOHAMMED CARTOON: FINALLY MUSLIMS SCREAM
By J. Grant Swank, Jr.
MichNews.com
Jan 31, 2006
That awesome awful silence blankets the globe’s face while Muslims slay innocent human beings thither and yon. Muslim national leaders say nothing. Muslim clerics say nothing. Muslim web sites continue with their propaganda but won’t stifle Islamic killers international.
Yet when rapist, murderer, plunderer, sex fiend Mohammed is cartooned in Danish and Norwegian papers, Muslims throughout the world clamor, beat their gums and throw their fists into the air. Well, finally we have heard from the Muslim world conclave.
Typical.
When it comes to carnage in the name of Allah, that is a pious act. Killing an infidel is not a crime. Stoning a woman accused of adultery—burying her up to her neck in sand—is a pious oblation. Murdering a cowardly Muslim is justice executed. Slitting the throat of a Muslim female because she is accused of dishonoring the clan is a right. And shooting a backslidden Muslim is mandatory according to the Koran.
To understand sharia, the Islamic “judicial system” supported by the Koran crazy book, is to realize that madness against non-Muslims is regarded as an offering to Allah, not of course punishable by any court.
Therefore, Israelis slaughtered in a café is not criminal nor outrageous. It is another notch in the suicide bombers’ soul good. And to bomb the subways and Twin Towers is to bring praise to Allah the Great.
But when cartoons are put in a newspaper, cartoons that are demeaning according to Muslims’ sensitivities—whatever they are since the rest of the world considers Muslims basically callously insensitive—there is global Islamic outrage. Allah worshipers are mad and shouting it. Sometimes I wonder if Muslims have houses or if they live guns by sides in the streets.
According to AP’s Donna Abu-Nasr, “Gunmen seized an EU office in Gaza and Muslims appealed for a trade boycott of Danish products.” Denmark officials have warned their citizens in the Middle East to “exercise vigilance.”
But the newspapers won’t budge, thank heaven. And the government will not do anything but let the Muslims fester. The officialdom is going to protect their freedom of speech rather than cower to the Islamic fanatics. Bravo.
The Muslims are intimidating one government after another in an attempt to establish Islam world rule. The more free nations simply boot the Muslims in the posterior, particularly deporting those who make trouble, the sooner the Islamic zealots will get the message to stash themselves inside mosques and keep their poster hangings to themselves.
Anything that Muslims touch decays. Any country they invade implodes. Any neighborhoods they take over turn ballistic. That’s why America in particular must route out sleeper cells. They must put down American webmastered web sites. They must send back home any Islamic who gives any twitch of problem making.
But that is not that easy when the American officials won’t do anything about immigrants crawling all over the country. Build the fence between Mexico and US. Deport Muslims making mayhem. Check out every other Muslim residing here, particularly the criminal type and the highly professionals touting Islamic propaganda on university campuses. Take in no more immigrants until the illegals are ousted.
Europe is overrun with sleeper cells. France and Germany are starting to take hold. Denmark is, too. British Prime Minister Tony Blair would like to deport them and jail them but Prince Charles is “fond” of Islam and the Parliament is wimpish. Canadian prior leader likened Muslims to Canadians in holding the same “value system”!
However, back to the cartoons depicting one of the most aggressive demon-possessed mortals who ever breathed—Mohammed—it is so encouraging to read that Denmark editors are not going to X-out the cartoons nor is the government going to make them.
Three cheers for the cartoons. And too bad for the Muslims who take to the streets over a few drawings but can’t seem to weep when innocent humans are Muslim-slain in one nation or another
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im a @!#$ pussy ass liar! i lied to my girlfriend over and over, sat around with her friends naked and stayed home downloading porn...she loved me and i hurt her...i deserve to be alone and unhappy...no wonder every girl i try to love leaves me...i suck.
