You're just not in touch with what's really going on. Your prisons are full of minor offenders. How many people are on death row in the US? 3315 on dec 31st 2004.... You have 25% of the worlds prisoners, guess what.. They're not lifers, there guys like you and me who made small errors in judgement, or pushed a limit just a bit too far. They are serving 5 and 10 years sentences for punching someone in a bar fight or smoking pot. Those people make up the vast bulk of the prison population.
Executions for lifers and anyone serving more than 20 years will not make a dent in the prison overcrowding problem.
Education funding will.
PAX
Well how about the fact that you getting dead may be an option? I bet that would slow down the violent offenders. Thats what I was getting at. I know that most of them are in for petty sh-t but the thought of their own mortality may be enough to disuade some from haveing those judgement lapses you speek of.
The criminal justice system in this country is just waaaay too soft. get tougher and I bet
people would respond by not doing as much ilegal activities.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jon Morgan wrote:This is Probably going to sound stupid, but this morning on the news they said he never admitted or apologised for any of his crimes. How can you call some one reformed if they never said they actually did some thing
I also saw that on tv and feel the same way. Its hard to say the guy is rehabilitated when he has convinced himself he is innocent of these crimes.
As far as the death penalty goes. I feel that it does serve a purpose, but i would honestly rather see them sit in a jail cell 24hrs a day without any kind of recess or communication amongst other people. At the most give them a book maybe once a month. I feel that would get the message across just fine and would probably make them wish they were dead.
Jack: The Death penalty doesn't decrease crime anywhere, and that is a fact. Except for Michigan, every state that has no death penalty has lower than the national average of per capita crime. NY's violent crime rate increased to almost double what it was 10 years before the DP was re-instated, while the population increased only 20%.
If you want to see a criminal "justice" system that isn't soft on criminals or anyone else for that matter (gone berzerk is more apropos), may I reccommend:
- Saudi Arabia,
- China,
- Yemen,
- Suriname,
- Cote d'Ivoire,
- Russia,
- Haiti,
- Thailand,
- Vietnam,
- Chile,
- Nicaragua,
- Belize
- Any other of the fine countries on Amenesty.org's hit list.
The thing that is getting lost in the "justice" system in the US, is practicality. You're making regular people criminals, while others that are true crooks either get let off without so much as restitution (Enron), or do a minimal amount of time in a country club jail(WorldCom). I'm sorry, I'm not buying the Justice end of it.
Mabe an injection of sanity into the the reformatory system is a good idea, couple that with sane sentencing restrictions (Restitution, house arrest, making the punishment fit the crime even...) and you might see the prison bills start to drop a bit. Let the judge decide what is fit punishment instead of a bunch of grandstanding know-nothings in political office... hell, you might even see real justice.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
^^^Hey buddy, we dont have the Death Penalty in NY. 2 cops just got killed and now everyone wants it put back into action to teach these fools a lesson.
Cop killers should die. The other cops should be allowed to take care of them how they see fit.
And I firmly believe in the punishment should indeed fit the crime. Asault someone and you should have the sh-t kicked out of you. Steal from someone and they should be paid back and allowed to go into your home and take whatever they want. Sell drugs
you should be forceably O.D.ed on whatever your selling. Rape someone?
Bubba
gets a new friend! Kill someone. Hey guess what? Your next ass wipe!
The punishment fitting the crime is absolutly the best idea I've ever heard from you.
Just don't wimp out when it comes time to kill some murdering P.O.S.
I know you oppose the DP, we've already established that, but then why say the punishment must fit the crime ? That would lead me to believe your OK with it.
I'm confused.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Quote:
the state can pay a 1/4 of a mill for a new sports stadium
Thats a really cheap sports stadium. The new Busch Stadium here in St. Louis is 344.8 million.
Hahahaha wrote:
Executions for lifers and anyone serving more than 20 years will not make a dent in the prison overcrowding problem.
Education funding will.
PAX
Pax, I was with you right until the part about education. Cleveland public schools are a joke, the mere thought of attempting to educate people in an environment where any sign of weakness is severely exploited by the other prisoners is a pipe dream. We can't even convince
children in Cleveland schools about the importance of education, same mentallity in younger bodies.
I agree that most short timers are people who exercised bad judgement, but in murder cases where it's clear and obvious, the death penalty should be given before decades have passed.
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
ShiftyCav wrote:^^^Hey buddy, we dont have the Death Penalty in NY. 2 cops just got killed and now everyone wants it put back into action to teach these fools a lesson.
You're probably not up on the news of the last 10 years:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/state/
Look up NY.
Death Penalty: YES.
Also, look at the number of executions since 1976: 0.
Dude, what does it say about your knowledge of the situation when I as a Canadian, know more about your state's laws than you do?
Before you pound out another blithely uninformed post, at least look up your state's requirements for the DP. Do yourself that little favor and educate yourself.
Jack:
You know what happens when you start talking about an eye for an eye? You get a whole lot of blind @!#$s running around.
About killing cops, I hold cops to a higher standard, definitely, but I don't think that killing them warrants greater or lesser punishment than any other member of the public. Yeah, I work with cops, and the ones that are down to earth are the ones that don't have to worry about getting killed tomorrow, but they do. The ones that trip out on the power that they're given are the ones that get sloppy, and give everyone else on the force a bad name... they're usually the ones that don't get greased, but they end up creating problems that lead to a good cop getting shot.
Doesn't matter if it's a judge, a cop, a politician, a mom, or a crack dealer. Murder is murder, and murder is wrong.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Oh Shifty: before you get uptight and spout off that the law was found to be unconstitutional, realise, the law is still on the books, there are still prisoners on Death Row, and it is only a matter of time before the law is re-written in keeping with the state and US constitution.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Quote:
About killing cops, I hold cops to a higher standard, definitely, but I don't think that killing them warrants greater or lesser punishment than any other member of the public. Yeah, I work with cops, and the ones that are down to earth are the ones that don't have to worry about getting killed tomorrow, but they do. The ones that trip out on the power that they're given are the ones that get sloppy, and give everyone else on the force a bad name... they're usually the ones that don't get greased, but they end up creating problems that lead to a good cop getting shot.
Thats an insult to any cop anywhere. what about people in gangs that run around and say "F the POlice". then they find a cop and shoot him because they find it humorous. NYPD is one of the best forces around and work hard to protect and serve. Whether youy feel a cop on a power trip has no right to feel that way is your own opinion, but if he sees his partner or friend killed and that leads to him having a power trip, then i dont blame him. if you arent doing anything wrong they have no reason to bother you, and you have no reason to be scared of a cop.
Quote:
Oh Shifty: before you get uptight and spout off that the law was found to be unconstitutional, realise, the law is still on the books, there are still prisoners on Death Row, and it is only a matter of time before the law is re-written in keeping with the state and US constitution.
yes , ok well they still cant send you to your death yet
Unless the charge is upgraded to a federal charge, you can be executed in the method the state selected. After reading a few articles, I think NY may be leaning towards abolishing the DP... who knows.
And ask a cop: would you rather be partnered with a guy that hassles every half-way shady looking character and trying to prove how big his balls are, or would you rather be with someone that can leave the petty stuff alone, and deal with the real problems.
And seriously, you live in the Bronx, there are black people around... not all of them are thugs or are starting stuff, but I can guarentee you that there are a handful of racists that make life harder for all the rest of the police for no real reason. If they get killed, and some other guy power trips out because he has a gun on his hip, that's not an officer that should be on a beat... just because someone says "f*** the police" doesn't give any cop license to lay a beating on that person, seriously, if you don't know how to let the petty @!#$ slide, you don't have any business being a beat cop.
And, until God himself annointeth a cop, they're the same shadows and dust as the rest of us. The ones that lose sight of that fact are the ones that get good cops killed.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
John,
PAX is a truncation of a latin expression, PAX VOBISCUM. It means "Peace be with you".
It is not my name.
PAX
Hahahaha wrote:John,
PAX is a truncation of a latin expression, PAX VOBISCUM. It means "Peace be with you".
It is not my name.
PAX
Sorry about that. My edification continues....
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
no i said they say "f the police" and when they get the chance, they might shoot on a cop. I didnt say the cop starts firing for no reason.
so wahats petty @!#$ to you, getting a bottle of piss thrown at you, getting shot at with paintballs? is that petty. this aint the damn country where cows roam free. i know a few cops that tell me this. they work in the worse neighborhoods around here. and when they go to arrest someone its the neighborhood against them. They go to cuff the dude and he fights back, they tell him to resist, and the onlookers all say "why are you hurting that man?", like he didnt do anything wrong. meanwhile, he might have just had a hit and run or beat someone up. a power trip doesnt always mean that the guy runs around blasting off shots. it could be that he gets that fire inside to work harder at his job to make sure this doesnt happen again to anyone.
..should have gave him a stick of butter and fried his ass in the chair instead..
okay so i dont mean to be stupid and say something that has no relevance to the previous posts, but i just said to my husband "why is this tookie thing still being discussed?" and he'slike "tookie? isnt that something off of star wars??" hahahahahahahaha no!!! rofl, i cant stop laughing, just thought i would share that.....
R.I.P. Kasey N. Burleson
Well here in MD they just pasted new legislation that assulting an officer is an instant
fellony doesn't matter what happened you touch a cop....... 5 years min. with NO time off
or deal makeing. My dad was a cop in Balto. city for 18 years till some cracked up ass nuget blew out the side of his knew with some karate kick of course it was met with a punch to the face from my dad that put the loser in the hospital for re-constructive surgery for years ( actualy caved in his face ) After that dad had to retire and the guy
spent a whole 6 months in jail ,after they re-built him. My dad, he had to have his knew replaced and couldn't hardle walk after it and they forced him into early retirement. So
as you can see I know about this first hand and I would have loved to have been there and watched the ass that destroyed my dads life get no less then 5 years.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jack: that'll get dumped on it's first appeal, or it'll be stayed on prosecution. A who hit who first game doesn't play well in court, if a cop beats someone with a nightstick, or makes the first aggressive move (and many do), it's out.
And... you know they made a tv show about your dad right, but in the show he was an Air Force test pilot, right? We have the technology...
J/K
ShiftyCav:
Quote:
no i said they say "f the police" and when they get the chance, they might shoot on a cop. I didnt say the cop starts firing for no reason.
My mistake. Not everyone that says F*** the police is going to shoot a cop, though.
Quote:
so wahats petty @!#$ to you, getting a bottle of piss thrown at you, getting shot at with paintballs? is that petty.
I'll explain in a minute, because you gave the exact scenario.
Quote:
this aint the damn country where cows roam free. i know a few cops that tell me this. they work in the worse neighborhoods around here.
I'd think that if you look outside and can see another house immediately across the street, you'd know you weren't in the country, no need for a cop to explain that to you.
Sorry, had to
I don't live in the boonies either, Ottawa is a city that has over 500,000 in the city proper and just under 750,000 in the Carleton region. It's not the sticks, and we have no less than 3 police forces in the area (RCMP (federal), OPP (provincial), Ottawa Police Service (municipal)), not including Military police.
Quote:
and when they go to arrest someone its the neighborhood against them. They go to cuff the dude and he fights back, they tell him to resist, and the onlookers all say "why are you hurting that man?", like he didnt do anything wrong. meanwhile, he might have just had a hit and run or beat someone up.
That is petty @!#$. People sticking their nose into police business, where it doesn't belong. The situation arises mainly because of a lack of trust between the public and the police, and that loss of trust happens when they see a cop using an undue amount of force to subdue a arrest subject. There's escalation of force, and usually, a green officer will either adhere to that and not use his better judgment, or ignore it... they usually don't last too long on the street.
Usually if an officer has good training and a good head on their shoulders, they'll know enough to avoid that kind of thing, or how to handle it if they're in that kind of situation.
Quote:
a power trip doesnt always mean that the guy runs around blasting off shots. it could be that he gets that fire inside to work harder at his job to make sure this doesnt happen again to anyone.
No, but using a little too much "english" (or gusto) on a arrest subject in public (and saying the subject was resisting if they are beginning to comply) is definitely a power trip, just like a "profiled stop" is a power trip. Having the mentality that you want to serve the public trust, protect the innocent and uphold the law, is something I'd hope every police officer would have.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Well Its sorta like the law they have down in VA. Commit a crime where a weapon is involved and its a mandentory sentence of I believe 10 years ( ??? ) So I don't see how you can say it will get thrown out. So far its been used and is responcible for several convictions. I for one applaud it as its well over due.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
As I said, it'll get overturned on appeal or stayed the second it turns into one cop's word against an accused.
And I'm not a fan of minimum sentences... they force a judge to ignore the facts of a case and leave no room for alternatives. (let the punishment fit the crime?)
And I'm hurt you didn't get my joke... it was worth a million laughs... Six Million even.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Jackalope wrote: My dad was a cop in Balto. city for 18 years till some cracked up ass nuget blew out the side of his knew with some karate kick of course it was met with a punch to the face from my dad that put the loser in the hospital for re-constructive surgery for years ( actualy caved in his face ) After that dad had to retire and the guy
spent a whole 6 months in jail ,after they re-built him.
How in the hell did your Dad throw a punch with enough force to cave in someone's skull after getting his knee destroyed?
?? I've been around the block a few times, this sounds more like your Dad punched that guy first, and one of that guy's friends kicked your Dad in the knee and ran. I've boxed in my younger days, and with something as minor as a sprained ankle you can't punch as hard because you can't use your body weight for power. I can't see having enough strength with a smashed knee to do anything other than fall down, so this sounds like your Dad threw the first punch and made up some
to cover his backside. Of course I wasn't there, but usually when someone hits a cop they do get more than 6 months, so the judge must have seen through this as well.
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
John: I've seen a guy on PCP beat the @!#$ out of an expanded metal covered jail cell door until the bones in his hands were quite literally pulped.
I don't know about Crack, but PCP... your brain literally takes a vacation.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:John: I've seen a guy on PCP beat the @!#$ out of an expanded metal covered jail cell door until the bones in his hands were quite literally pulped.
I don't know about Crack, but PCP... your brain literally takes a vacation.
Agreed, but according to Jackalope, his Dad was kicked in the knee BEFORE he caved in the other guy's skull. Surely you're not implying that Jackalopes Dad was on PCP, I think you misread something somewhere.
I was making a point that throwing a punch with a smashed knee that would have sufficient strength to smash someone's skull is
. You'd have to rotate your body and use your core muscle groups to shift your weight, which isn't going to happen with a knee that's so damaged it needs to be replaced.
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
