Got to thinking about another post and the capital punishment threads that have been floating around...

Here's a new game: You get to play law reformer. You can basically decide what you think is a tolerable punishment/reformation for a person that commits a certain crime. Here is the hitch: you are appointing a MAXIMUM penalty, no minimums.

I'm not going to get an abridged Criminal code thing going here, but more a general thing. I'm going to make another post for the crimes to make Quoting a bit easier. I'm using the Canada Criminal Code, so the wording might be a little different state by state, but the overall Jist is pretty universal.


http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-38.8/37475.html <-- Drug schedules for Canada, if you want to use US versions of the Schedules, provide the pertinant link.
For reference:
Schedule 1: Opiods (heroine)
Schedule 2: Cannabis & derrivatives
Schedule 3: Amphetaminoids and other hard "upper" drugs
Schedule 4: Barbituoids and other hard "downer" drugs
Schedule 5: Prescription inhalants.
Schedule 6: "Cooked" and processed drugs, as well as their processing agents and precursors

There are more Schedules, but VII and VIII deal with amounts of Cannabis and resins (VII for trafficking and VIII personal use).

Feel free to add on as you see fit. But nothing silly okay?



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Property Crimes:
Theft over $5000:
Theft under $5000:
Auto Theft:
Grand Theft Auto (more than 1 count of Auto Theft):
Tresspass:
Mischief:
Arson:
Robbery:
Robbery with weapon:

Drug Series:
Simple posession (schedule 1-3):
Simple posession (schedule 4-6):
Possess for trafficking (Sch. 1-3):
Possess for trafficking (Sch. 4-6):
Cultivation (Sch 1-3):
Cultivation (Sch 4-6):

Assault series:
Simple assault:
Spousal assault:
Assault With Weapon:
Assault Cause Bodily Harm:
Assault Cause Grievous Bodily Injury:

Sex Crimes:
Rape:
Rape with Aggrivation (use of a weapon, menacing):
Sexual assault:
Sexual assault of a minor:
Invitation to sexual touching (Luring):

Capital Crimes:
Manslaughter:
Negligent Homicide:
Homicide:
Homicide with aggrivation (commision of a robbery):
Police Homicide:
Treason:
High Treason (Treason in time of war):
Nautical Piracy:
Air Piracy:

Driving Offences:
Reckless Driving:
Driving under the Influence: (state the minimum limit of alcohol in millilitres of alchol, per decilitre of blood as a percentage, ie 0.3
Driving While Intoxicated: (state the minimum limit of alcohol in millilitres of alchol, per decilitre of blood as a percentage, ie 0.5
Refuse breath/blood alcohol test:
Dangerous driving causing bodily harm:
Dangerous driving causing accident:
Fail to stop at scene of an Accident:
Driving while License suspended:



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

No-one has any ideas?

come on...



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

I'll play,

Ok some of the laws we have now are fine but the problem is enforcment of the penality after conviction. Why should you get off early for good behaivior? Good you learned the way you should act now when you come out perhaps you'll act the way you learned to in prison.

Your property crimes can be resolved by restitution and mild prison stays. If the guilty party can not afford to pay back the monitary value of what they did then they get to enter a work release program so they can earn the money to pay back what they stole / destroyed.

Drug crimes, Posestion if its deemed to be for personal consumption should involve
a drug treatment program and follow ups by the state to make sure you don't relapse.
Posestion with intent to distribute should land you in jail for a whole no doubt where you can be given education and hopefully get back on the right track again state supervision afterwards to make sure your being "good". The manufactur of drugs should be treated the same as posestion with intent to distribute.

Assultes are a little more trickey it would depend on the sevarity of the attack. But this should get jail time in proportion to the attack and counceling. Most assults if not crimes of pasion are useualy drug related and would go along with the drug sentencing guide lines as well.

Sex crimes once proven thru dna or multiple witnesses should involve chemical castration of the offender followed by prison time and counseling on there recent being turned into unics.

Capital crimes depending on what happened say for example a crime of pasion should involve prison time. The rest should be exicuted as soon as guilt can be proven 100%. Once guilt is proven yu get 24hours to say your goodbyes and then you are put to death. Treason during war time should be handled the way it used to be with either a bullet or a rope and a tree.

Traffic crime can have a big range of punishment depending on sevarity and if other people were invloved in say a hit and run involving death this lands you in prison for life as you have taken a life thru your actions see capital crimes under the heading f crime of passion. Drunk driveing involveing death then you just signed your own death warrent as well.

This could get very involved so I'll just cut myself off there before I get carried away.
Any questions Gam then please just ask.





Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Well I broke it down because obviously, there are differences and degrees...

I'll put in my 2 bits, but realise that I'm thinking along the lines of maximums, not minimums... I think a judge should have a good bit of latitude in assigning any penalties or rewards (in civil trials).


Property Crimes:
Theft over $5000: Restitution, 100 hrs community service per $1000 value of stolen goods.
Theft under $5000: Restitution, No more than 2 years stay in prison, 100 hrs of community service per $1000 value of stolen goods, compliance/peace bond for maximum of 5 years.
Auto Theft: Restitution on vehicle's value or cost for repairs, 500 hrs community service
Grand Theft Auto (more than 1 count of Auto Theft): Restitution, maximum 7.5 years prison, compliance/peace bond for max. 10 years.
Tresspass: Peace Bond 1st offence, $1000 fine or forfeiture 2nd offence, 2 years consecutive for each additional.
Mischief: Restitution, Peace bond 1 year, 50 hrs. comm service
Arson: Restitution, 5 year sentence with provision that structure that was destroyed be rebuilt using that person on labour detail.
Robbery: Restitution, 2 years prison maximum, Weapons prohibition for 5 years after release
Robbery with weapon: Restitution, 5 years prison maximum, weapons prohibition for life.

Drug Series:
Simple posession (schedule 1-3): 1: Enforced 2yr. treatment programme, 2: Fine up to $500, that and treatment if it's a second offence, 3: Same as #1
Simple posession (schedule 4-6): 4: Same as 1, 5: Treatment for 6 months, prohibition unless under doctor's supervision, 6: Enforced 2 yr. treatment and prohibition from purchasing precursors unless under Doctor supervision.
Possess for trafficking (Sch. 1-3): 1: upto 3 years first offence, 10 years second, subsequent, judge's discretion, no parole, 2: upto 1 year 1st offence, 3 second, 5 subsequent, 3: Same as 1.
Possess for trafficking (Sch. 4-6):4-6: same as #1.
Cultivation (Sch 1-3):1: prohibition from purchasing grow-related equipment, 5 years prison, 2-4: same
Cultivation (Sch 4-6):4-5: same as 1, 6: Restitution for clean up of lab and surrounding areas or value of building and demolition costs, prohibition from purchase of drug-lab materials, 5 years prison

Assault series:
Simple assault: peace bond, 1-3 months prison 1st offence, 6 months prison, psych evaluation and treatment 2nd offence, 2 years prison and mandated treatment 3rd and subsequent.
Spousal assault: same as Simple assault, but mandated treatment from 1st. offence.
Assault With Weapon: weapons prohibition 2 yrs, peace bond, 1-3 months 1st offence, life weapons prohibition, 1-3 years prison 2nd offence, subsequent offences are at judiciary discretion.
Assault Cause Bodily Harm: Maximum 5 years prison 1st offence, maximum 7.5 years second, subsequent judicial discretion.
Assault Cause Grievous Bodily Injury: Life weapons prohibition, Maximum 7.5 years 1st offence, subsequent judicial discretion.

Sex Crimes:
Rape: 2 years prison & mandatory therapeutic councilling 1st offence, 5 years prison & Chemical castration with random spotchecks for 10 years after, subsequent, judicial discretion
Rape with Aggrivation (use of a weapon, menacing):5 years prison & Chemical castration with mandated weekly checks, tracking anklet 1st offence, subsequent, judicial discretion
Sexual assault: See Rape.
Sexual assault of a minor: see Rape w/ Aggrivation.
Invitation to sexual touching (Luring): Restraining order 1st offence (provided there was no further crime), subsequent Judicial discretion pending psychiatric evaluation.

Capital Crimes:
Manslaughter: Intentional: 8-10 years, Unintentional: Judicial Discretion
Negligent Homicide: 15 years per victim, or judical discretion.
Homicide: 20-25 years, or judicial discretion
Homicide with aggrivation (commision of a robbery): 25 years to life imprisonment.
Police Homicide: Life imprisonment.
Treason: (I'm going to catch hell for this) Death, Persona non Grata within country, judicial discretion.
High Treason (Treason in time of war): Death pending trial.
Nautical Piracy: Life imprisonment if there were no homicides, Death by drowning if there were.
Air Piracy: Life imprisonment if there were no homicides, Death by ejection from an aircraft in flight (@30,000 feet) without benefit of a parachute or other life saving equipment. (yes, I believe in Ironical justice).

Driving Offences:
Reckless Driving: Loss of license for 1 year, after that person must take a department approved driver's course and re-test for their license and abide driving restrictions for 5 years afterwards, subsequent, Loss of license for 5 years & forfeiture of vehicle
Driving under the Influence: (0.3 $1000 fine, driving restrictions including zero blood alcohol, person may not be in control of any vehicle without an interlock device, loss of license for 5 years, Interlock device requirement on second offence, Subsequent: Judicial discretion including forfeiture and mandated substance abuse treatment.
Driving While Intoxicated: (0.5 $5000 fine, loss of license for 5 years and forfeiture of vehicle. After that: Interlock device, department approved driver's course and re-test and driving restrictions for 5 years after, subsequent, Lifetime ban from care and control of any motor vehicle on public highways.
Refuse breath/blood alcohol test: Loss of License for 1 year, $1000 fine.
Dangerous driving causing bodily harm: See Driving While Intoxicated.
Dangerous driving causing accident: Restitution, Loss of license for 1 year, $1000 fine per vehicle damaged, not including the vehicle the person was in control of.
Fail to stop at scene of an Accident: See Refuse Breath/Blood alcohol test.
Driving while License suspended: Forfeiture of vehicle if owned by the person, $5000 fine, Loss of license for 5 years consecutive with the original sentencing, Subsequent, $10000 fine, Lifetime driving prohibition, 6 months imprisonment.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

We agree on some points and on other things you alot nicer then I would be. Rape
you should be "fixed" on the first offence. Murder, Well you know my stance on this so no surprise there. What did surprise me Gam was the treasons punishment. I wouldn't argue that with you at all. BUT, ( yup here it comes ) Since your willing to conceed the D.P. is the correct punishment for treason then your one step closer to the dark side. ( insert darth vader voice here ) Gam I am your father, search your feelings you know this to be true. Ok so maybe I'm not your dad but you are begining to see
that death is a viable punishment. True if nothing more then for treason, But wait didn't good old Tim Mcvay comit an act of domectic terrorism when he blew up the federal building? And would't take be considered treason? Or how about that Malvo guy on trial down here for terrorism and that kid. Wouldn't that fall into the same catigory? Hey I'm not trying to back you into a corner or turn this into another D.P. post
so I'm gonna let this drop ( as long as you will also ) I'm just glad you can see that some do deserve to get it.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Well, First off, Treason is the only offence in Canada where the Death penalty is the only assigned punishment. However, the burden of proof is IMMENSE, you need to satisfy that the person(s) not only aided the enemy, but also that the enemy benefitted from the information.

It's viable but in a very... VERY limited scope, and even then, we haven't had a case of treason since the 1812 war, and the person was sent to exile in the Hudson's bay protected territory (which was pretty much a death sentence... you should see the size of the mosquitos there!). Using outside the limit of Treason, worse as a standard pusnishment still isn't a worthwhile effort.

Terrorism is too wide a concept to assign as a threat category. I know that in the US, Air Piracy (for, and not for monetary profit) is a capital case, sea piracy as well (look up rocks and shoals, ancient maritime law). Outside of that, (such as with McVeigh) it can be covered pretty carefully by established laws.

However, I should point back and say these are the maximiums, not minimums... I believe that a Judge isn't just a referee, and as such, they should be entrusted with the sentencing.

I'm a little lenient, but Stiffer sentences for a lot of crimes have been proven to not work in the lion's share of cases... I'd be more interested in seeing the problems get corrected first, as opposed to punishing them on the back end of a subsequent crime... I like some of the ideas of that Arizona warden (forget his name just now), but not the totality of them... Time at hard labour with no other supporting positive influence just means you're putting a stronger criminal out on the street when you release them. In the case of violent offences, I think that there is either a social maladjustment (like abusive background) or some other chemical imbalance at work. Thievery is usually either by need or greed, need can be helped, greed needs different kind of help. Murder, well, most of the time a person has committed it because of several reasons, had those factors not aligned, it wouldn't have happened...

I'm trying to say that instead of just warehousing people, it's better to get at the root of crime and pluck it out, than to just clip the top off of it and let it spring anew later.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

I'll bite...However, realize that these are when there is 100% proof that the person is guilty of the act--where there is no legal loophole or means of appeal. As such, the person is guilty as charged and this is undisputed.

Property Crimes:
Theft over $5000: 5 years, Restitution of 3x value
Theft under $5000: 1 year, Restitution of 2x value
Auto Theft: 5 years, restitution of auto damages and if vehicle is unreparable, restitution of equal to brand new equvalent vehicle of same make, model and trim if possible (i.e. a base level cavy would be worth a brand new cobalt, a firebird woukld equal a GTO)
Grand Theft Auto (more than 1 count of Auto Theft): 5 years per count of auto theft, restitution of auto damages and if vehicle is unreparable, restitution of equal to brand new equvalent vehicle of same make, model and trim if possible (i.e. a base level cavy would be worth a brand new cobalt, a firebird woukld equal a GTO)

Tresspass: To be determined by resident'property owner
Mischief: This would be totally dependent on the crime. If it was as simple as, say, illegal firewroks possesion, the crime would be minimal--like 30 days in jail or community service. Vandalism would be restitution/cleanup of damages.
Arson: Restitution of damages and 10 years. If damage is totalling over 1,000,000--indentured servitude at min. wage until damages are paid off.
Robbery: restitution of damages and 3 years
Robbery with weapon: 2x restitution of damages and 10 years

Drug Series:
Simple posession (schedule 1-3): mandatory counseling and detox
Simple posession (schedule 4-6): mandatory counseling and detox
Possess for trafficking (Sch. 1-3): mandatory counseling and detox, property search for legal tender and mandatory IRS audit
Possess for trafficking (Sch. 4-6): mandatory counseling and detox, property search for legal tender and mandatory IRS audit
Cultivation (Sch 1-3): cultivation mateirals siezed and/or destroyed
Cultivation (Sch 4-6): cultivation matierials siezed and/or destoryed

Assault series:
Simple assault: Restitution for medical damages and 5 years per permanent debilitating injury
Spousal assault: Restitution for medical damages and 5 years per permanent debilitating injury, mandatory counseling
Assault With Weapon: Restitution for medical damages and 10 years per permanent
Assault Cause Bodily Harm: Restitution for medical damages and 5 years per permanent
Assault Cause Grievous Bodily Injury: Restitution for medical damages and 5 years per permanent

Sex Crimes:
Rape: Emasculation and sterilization and 20 years
Rape with Aggrivation (use of a weapon, menacing): Emasculation/sterilization and 50 years.
Sexual assault: Emasculation and Sterilization and 20 years
Sexual assault of a minor: Emasculation/sterilization and 50 years.
Invitation to sexual touching (Luring): Is this even a crime? doesn't it fit under below?
Sexual abuse: Emasculation/sterilization and 15 years.

Capital Crimes:
Manslaughter: Involuntary=5 years, voluntary=10
Negligent Homicide: 20 years first offense, death penalty subsequenty
Homicide: Death penalty
Homicide with aggrivation (commision of a robbery): Death penalty
Police Homicide: Death penalty
Treason: Death penalty
High Treason (Treason in time of war): Death penalty
Nautical Piracy: Restitution of 5x goods stolen
Air Piracy: Restitution of 5x goods stolen

Driving Offences:
Reckless Driving: License permanently revoked.
Driving under the Influence: (state the minimum limit of alcohol in millilitres of alchol, per decilitre of blood as a percentage, ie 0.3 License suspended for 5 years
Driving While Intoxicated: (state the minimum limit of alcohol in millilitres of alchol, per decilitre of blood as a percentage, ie 0.5 Licence permanently revoked, mandatory detox and counseling
Refuse breath/blood alcohol test: License permanetly revoked
Dangerous driving causing bodily harm: Licence permanently revoked and sentancing of 1 year per person injured, 5 per person killed
Dangerous driving causing accident: License permanently revoked and restitution 3 fold of the damages caused (to be done as community service at min. wage if restitution cannot be made)
Fail to stop at scene of an Accident: License permanently revoked and sentancing of 1 year per person injured and restitution 3x property damage
Driving while License suspended: License permanently revoked.



Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
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The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
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