Big Bang Theory was originally created by Fthr Georges LeMaitre, a catholic Priest.
As far as planet creation theory, you could look Edwin Hubble, or Sir Fred Hoyle. They refined the Big Bang theory (or in Hoyle's case, disputed it, but didn't manage to disprove it either).
Quote:
I meant we didn't have formal written knowledge of history before Old Testament times because nothing was written formally per se. Of course we've found things written on cave walls and stone tablets and things of this nature, but nothing written in a formal matter.
Actually, You're incorrect, Jewish and Pagan/Egyptian Mutli-deist scriptures predate Christian Tomes by roughly 3000 years. The Torrah in it's first incarnation dates back almost 6000 years. Greek and Roman Poly-theism predate Christianity by about 1500 years or so, and Gaellic/Germanic Paganism (as fluid as they were) have ritual altars that predate Christianity by roughly 2000 years.. While it's only been hinted at there are indications that Stonehenge's rocks were covered in symbolic texts, only to have been worn away by erosion (we're only talking Carvings of about 3-4 mm in depth at best.
Quote:
Although there are religions that pre-exist chrisrtianity, and it is true that every religion has some kind of belief system. The difference is the earthly presents of Jesus and God through Jesus. The other "gods" you mention were never physical beings, just made up entities represented by stone statues.
I think you meant Presence.
Okay, where to begin.. Christianity/Messianic Judaism is unique in that it has the deity delivering his child unto the populace which he creates. Gods among people were not uncommon, but if you examine Roman Solar worshippers, numerous Pagan Emperors became Gods in their belief system, by their deeds on earth (both Heinous and Galant). My grasp on it is rather weak ( I didn't concentrate a lot on it), but the Emperor that oversaw the creation of the Acqueducts from the Itallian alps (I might be wrong on that mountain Range, it's the ones near Milan at the north of Italy) was given as a God that wlaked the face of the earth.
The Greeks also conferred God status to many of their Athletes and Senators and Generals. As well, both Romans and greeks conferred that status unto their philosophers, mathematicians, and Apothecaries.
Egyptians worked in a different manner: they saw Godliness in their various duties. Most embalmers were seen as being more than just priests, they had a connection to the afterlife, and were to be paid as best as you could to ensure that they would properly prepare your body for the next world. Ultimately, the ones that embalmed pharoes and their progeny were considered as vessels for Osiris and were inhabited or consumed by Osiris when undertaking the preparation of the body.
The Pieces of rock you're talking about are not Gods themselves (unless you're talking about Medusa... but she was a scourge) but monuments to the Gods. Think about why most Christian places of worship have Crucifixes or cruciforms in their main prayer halls... Same idea. Now, SOME places in India, Tibet, Mongolia and China see some rocks as leftovers from their deity (Buddha most likely) and they worship the rock as the earthly remains of a deed done long ago by their deity.
Quote:
Of course you could say that God is just a made up entity as well. But christianity separates itself because our foundation of our beliefs rest in something that has been to this earth. Something that has physically shown Himself and His power to us. Eventhough we don't really know if the Jesus that we speak of was the Jesus of the Bible, we can rest of sure that if it is, Jesus is by far the piece of the puzzle that seperates christianity for other religions.
But the thing is, the deeds written of in the bible (irrespective of their fidelity to actual events) are an interpretation of the events. Jesus is written of in the Torrah, and he is merely a prophet, same as in the Qur'ran. He is recognised in all three tomes, but in the Christian Bible, he's THE Central character in the New Testament, where as in the other two, he is a player. Jesus, as a person I believe existed, but his role and his actual deeds are the ideas that are up in the air (but then again, I'm not getting into that because I'm not even sure most of the time where I stand on that). The difference is that Christianity believes that when the messiah comes again, it will be the end of days, whereas Judaism believes that when the Messiah comes, he will shepperd the faithful and the good to heaven (basically, bollocks to the rest), and Islam believes that when the end is nigh, Allah will sweep the earth clean. His word having been put out by the prophets Mohammed (peace be unto him) and Abraham (peace be unto him).
Quote:
The Old Testaments was written by man with God's influence. Meaning, these were Gods own words written down under His own will, thus theoreticaly making those words infallible and totally true. Actually our calender system wasn't develop until right around the time of Jesus, so we truely don't know if a day in the Old Testament was the same day as it is today.
Actually, our Calendar system was adapted from Roman calendars which were based off of solar occurrances (Equinoxes and solstices). The Jewish calendar was based off of lunar cycles, and predates the Gregorian calendar by about 4000 years, give or take.
The Roman calendars are about 300-400 years (please correct me if I'm wrong, last I read about this was 5-6 years ago) pre-origin of Chrisitanity, note that there are several Roman names in our Calendar, and none of them Christian
Most notable (I forgot earlier, but he was the one that initiated the Acqueducts) is Augustus... or... August.
Anyhow, the Jewish calendar was built off of a 21day cycle, and it's been the same for over 5000 years... using the Jewish Calendar system we can figure out when certain events happened. Again, assuming the texts you are trying to date from were correct. Judaic calendars are not subject to the alterations of 24 hour drift.
Quote:
Try to think about it like this, science tries to put everything in to a nice orderly pattern, the idea that everything has a process, nothing is random. As such, we can see how nicely put together most things are in this world. We can see the how although our human systems are so complicated, they work consistently with every little part doing exactly what it needs to do everytime. Now, because of this science says that it is very logical to say that we must of come from a common single cell organism, but couldn't the common denominator be that we come from the same creator. If the same creator made everything, you would think that He would make all of it in some simular fasion.
Science is trying to unravel the machinations behind something to remove the magic idea. The difference is instead of saying "we don't know but God does, and that's good enough" Science says "we don't know,
yet[/u" and postulate a theory which can be refined, proved or disproved. Some things are seen as being random, or happening because of a process we don't yet know about. It does try to uncover things, but order them? Try to make a tsunami or earthquake orderly.. not going to happen All we can do is through scientific method and observation, try to learn as much as possible about the lead up to events... as miniscule as an eye-blink, or as massive as a tornado.
Here's the other thing, and I'm not singling you out in particular Jive, it's something I find as a common misconception between BOTH Science-minds and Theological-minds... Science is not the pursuit of the abolition of religion, and never (at it's core at least) has been. Look at the originator of the big bang theory... Catholic Priest by day, physicist and philosopher by night... Science is looking to unravel the mystery of life, and nothing else. Darwin himself was a Christian (not overly devout, and he did not convert on his deathbed as rumored), and never in any of his writings dismissed God or creation. His original text, Origin of Species, didn't make mention of that idea at all, it DID however, dispute the idea that the Earth could have been created and species such as those in the Bible, develop and evolve in a way that is described in the bible. However, Darwin was not this overt, and he did not want to upset the people that funded his research... he stuck to the facts, and postulated theories. Some have been disproved, most have been refined.. it's good Science.
Quote:
I used the analogy of emotions and the existence of God in relation to being able to believe in something that we can't see or touch. So, if we can't see or touch or emotions (like love for instances), but we know it's there because we've felt it before.
I think you're making something out of chemical alterations resultant from an alteration in thought pattern, or realisation of loss or gain... Emotions are complex, definitely, but you're talking about something that can be loosely quanitified and defined under observation. Thoughts on the otherhand, are a lot harder to follow the chemical precursors to.
Quote:
Couldn't the same thing be said about God, in the instance that we can't see or touch Him, but we have felt his will. I agree, the idea of chemical imbalance is a very real and proven idea, but as you stated, it's not an exact science. Again, science can tell us "how" something happens (ie. feeling emotion through neurotransmitters emitted by your nervous system in your brain), but it can't tell us "why" this happens, and to me, that is the key.
Not to split hairs, but we cannot yet understand why people think the way they do, and react the way they do. Again, Science doesn't seek to disprove the existence of God, just to heighten our understanding of the universe around us.
Quote:
Plus, eventhough we can give depression medication, the very fact that it works for some people and not others, is a example of just how much we really know, or can know, about the same we feel.
Well, here's the hitch, Medications work or don't work for a lot of reasons, mainly because, no matter how often or indepth you test something, you're not going to be able to tailor make every drug for everyperson. Point of fact: some people cannot take penicillin or it's family of drugs... it's not an inferior solution to infection control, it just doesn't work on some people or some infections. It just means that we need to find another drug, or another avenue of treatment, the same thing happens when considering other medications.
The bigger thing, we can choose how we feel about things... we can equally suppress and amplify our feelings about something or someone by altering our thought patterns. I'll give you an example:
I was working one evening when we found out 4 members of the RCMP in Mayerthorpe were killed (actually slaughtered in ambush is more like it) in the line of Duty, they needed the prints of the officers involved to ensure the identities of everyone, I won't get into why. We were talking to an officer, and he was very curt, and I could tell he was holding a LOT back, when we told him there would be a delay, he didn't lose it but became a lot more curt, and a lot more aggressive. Here's the point of the story: I was dealing with the Officer, and I knew that he was under pressure, and he had to get the info to complete an investigation because it was critical information, but the fact that I didn't have it just cranked up the pressure more, and he was about to start getting hostile... I could have gotten hostile or defensive back, but, I didn't. Why? It wouldn't have helped to have a shouting match with someone I'm supposed to be working with.
You can choose your attitude, and when you realise that, and realise the signs that you're going to lose control of your own thoughts and emotions, you can halt it.
How does that relate to God? I think that a lot of people really WANT to experience something... and they either conciously cojure it up and start saying it to themselves enough they believe it, or they sub-conciously do the same thing, and just follow along with the idea not knowing it is a figment of their imagination. I don't discount the miraculous happenings, nor the existence or presence of God, but I know that when someone carves "JESUS" in their forearm and takes a picture of it, they're not doing it out of religious conviction...
I believe that if there is a God in the Christian sense, then he wants us to follow our hearts and do whats best for everyone, because when all is said and done, that is what we need to do anyhow to ensure survival of the species (well, that and I think toe-curling orgasms will ensure long-term survival ). I don't know about and can't comment about having a personal relationship with God... If you think you have it, Who am I to argue?
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Christians believe science is basically the search for turth. The so-called conflicts of science and religion of most often conflicts between interpretations of facts and reality.
Also the Vaticans back when took the bibble and made it their on way so it can be universal throughout the years and left out alot of pages. I wonder why? Maybe their hidden something.. For example : What if Jesus was married - Why is their 25+ religons out their - Why do priest become molesters - Why do Christians believe the world was created 4000 years ago and when u ever u mention Dinosaurs they make up some BS. Anyways i could go on and on but im done hehe. Great topic. 
