NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO and NO
Universal or Socialized health care is bad
(I didnt even read the thread yet btw)
Greedy Capitalist Pig wrote: Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:Says the guy with no substantive arguments, just flapping hearsay.
FYI, a substantive argument is one where not only is information posted, but an explanation in the poster's own words is given as to why it supports the point
Sorry to inform you [again]. But substantive argument is a reason given in proof or rebuttal on a not imaginary; but actual; with real and solid basis. You on the other hand are giving out is selective hearsay (which is ok but you have to state it), but your handful of people that you claim are working in these area now isn't enough to represent the nation. Just like you find X amount of people favoring you, I can find x amount of people against you. Do you get it now?
So I'm still waiting on concrete evidence from page 1 claims. Personally, I would like to know more on this.
Greedy Capitalist Pig wrote: Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:Don't you ever get tired of being a hypocrite?
Don't you ever get tired of looking like an incompetent idiot, who can not substantiate a statement like this?
Learn what a hypocrite is, then read what you write. You sir are a poster child of the word. If I have to substantiate my statement, all I would have to do is hit search find what you type when somebody is against your philosophy and BAM there you are exercising your virtue.
--------------
IMO and back on this topic, I'm still not decided if I'm in favor as there still issues being talked about and talks of now some bipartisan, so until I see a finalised version and not just a proposal I will withhold final judgement.
My concern is we are still eating $hit over at Middle East, that is draining us badly, when I was under the impression we was getting out to fund this. But reiterate I will withhold final judgement until it is finalized.
THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.
If you like a nation that has that....
MOVE
Quote:
Do You Support Obama's Health Care Plan? (105,324 Respondents)
Do you support President Obama's and the Democrat's plan for universal health care?
# Yes
27,960 (26.54
# No
77,385 (73.46
Do you believe the Democratic health plan should include 45 million uninsured, including illegal aliens?
# Yes, should include 45 million.
20,335 (19.49
# No, should not.
83,981 (80.51
Do you approve of President Obama�s handling of health care reform?
# Yes
27,045 (26.00
# No
76,983 (74.00
Do you believe Obama�s health care plan is too expensive?
# Yes
78,351 (75.14
# No
25,926 (24.86
Do you agree that new health care costs should be paid for by increasing taxes on the "wealthy"?
# Yes, increase taxes on the wealthy.
30,776 (29.61
# No, don't increase taxes.
73,167 (70.39
If you were allowed to join the public health care system at rates cheaper than your private insurance, would you join it?
# Yes, I would join.
31,802 (30.69
# No I would not join.
71,807 (69.31
Actually, Im Ok with it...as long as (once more... state thing..) Its to our Constitution.... States VOTE for it... If FL wants to, but WI dose not.. so be it.
That's not a FED issue, and it keeps up to the Constitution.
AND BEST OF ALL, IF YOU LIKE IT.
YOU CAN FU_KING MOVE THERE
neat right?
Chris
"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."
Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry
sndsgood wrote:goodwrench and shorthand.
what is the percentage of profit the pharmacuitical companies and oil companies generate?
Last I saw.....less than many other companies in other market sectors.
Anything that T Boone Pickens is involved in should be boycotted. That guys ultimate goal is to control and ration every natural resource in teh country, scary part is he has support from quite a few high up politicians.
so oil is only making 12-15% profit +/-. that right there kinda makes me laugh. now 33% is pretty good but not exactly raping you. and as you said, that was just the highest, which means there could be allot of companies down in the 10-15% profit margin, which isnt that tremendous. so many people scream about these companies stealing money when they are just turning a standard profit.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Actually, if you read the links he posted, his numbers aren't substantiated even there. The most glaring is the oil.
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:http://www.usnews.com/articles/business/economy/2008/02/01/exxons-profits-measuring-a-record-windfall.html
Quote:
On the margin. The oil industry urges people to look beyond its profits to its profit margin: about 7.6 percent of revenues late last year. That's not much higher than the 5.8 percent profit margin for all U.S. manufacturing, and if you exclude the financially troubled auto industry from that analysis, the oil industry actually appears less profitable than most manufacturers, which were earning 9.2 cents on every dollar of sales.
Holy sh!t, they got to keep 7.6 cents for every dollar they took in? Thieving bastards!
Wait a minute, that's lower than most manufacturers. Dammit! Now we need to go after them! They're keeping almost a whole dime for every dollar they take in!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:27 AM
Greedy Capitalist Pig wrote:Actually, if you read the links he posted, his numbers aren't substantiated even there. The most glaring is the oil.
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:http://www.usnews.com/articles/business/economy/2008/02/01/exxons-profits-measuring-a-record-windfall.html
Quote:
On the margin. The oil industry urges people to look beyond its profits to its profit margin: about 7.6 percent of revenues late last year. That's not much higher than the 5.8 percent profit margin for all U.S. manufacturing, and if you exclude the financially troubled auto industry from that analysis, the oil industry actually appears less profitable than most manufacturers, which were earning 9.2 cents on every dollar of sales.
Holy sh!t, they got to keep 7.6 cents for every dollar they took in? Thieving bastards!
Wait a minute, that's lower than most manufacturers. Dammit! Now we need to go after them! They're keeping almost a whole dime for every dollar they take in!
Once again its been a while, but last i looked Microsoft was at 24.6 cents on the dollar. Yet nobody is concerned with their "evil practice of screwing over their customers". Before anyone says that we dont have to depend on Microsoft...how many businesses and organizations use Microsoft software, depend on it to be able to operate so they can turn a profit, and have to rely on the updates everytime a new worm or virus comes out that has found yet another hole in the Microsoft software? Could you imagine the cost to change over to another system?
sndsgood wrote:so oil is only making 12-15% profit +/-. that right there kinda makes me laugh. now 33% is pretty good but not exactly raping you. and as you said, that was just the highest, which means there could be allot of companies down in the 10-15% profit margin, which isnt that tremendous. so many people scream about these companies stealing money when they are just turning a standard profit.
The problem arises like I said before, when you have no out or option in avoiding paying high prices, it is almost a monopoly, but not there
yet. The other is when you have next day price jumps of a high % or when same brand of product is found cheaper in other countries, but it is anal rape here. Lots of variables, I know, but it will always be questionable.
Quote:
Once again its been a while, but last i looked Microsoft was at 24.6 cents on the dollar. Yet nobody is concerned with their "evil practice of screwing over their customers". Before anyone says that we dont have to depend on Microsoft...how many businesses and organizations use Microsoft software, depend on it to be able to operate so they can turn a profit, and have to rely on the updates everytime a new worm or virus comes out that has found yet another hole in the Microsoft software? Could you imagine the cost to change over to another system?
The day that Microsoft raises the price of a $200-$300 software to $5,000 tell me later that there will not be a outrage. Wait, there are other companies that have O/S too, flocks will jump to them if the price right, if the other O/S does the same to charge $5k for a program that is worth $200-$300, tell me what we are going to do? Go back to pen/paper? It is a extreme outlook in retaliation, but that option is there, oil on the hand we barely have an option to retaliate. That's how oil affect us/economy so directly and should be monitored to prevent catastrophes.
THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.
Greedy Capitalist Pig wrote:Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:The problem arises like I said before, when you have no out or option in avoiding paying high prices, it is almost a monopoly, but not there yet...
...The day that Microsoft raises the price of a $200-$300 software to $5,000 tell me later that there will not be a outrage. Wait, there are other companies that have O/S too, flocks will jump to them if the price right, if the other O/S does the same to charge $5k for a program that is worth $200-$300, tell me what we are going to do? Go back to pen/paper? It is a extreme outlook in retaliation, but that option is there, oil on the hand we barely have an option to retaliate. That's how oil affect us/economy so directly and should be monitored to prevent catastrophes.
Anyone else smell the hypocrisy there? 
There are so many things wrong with your position here it's a complete joke. You're saying that the oil companies, who get to keep a measly 7.6 cents on ever dollar they take in, are evil and have "almost a monopoly", but somehow it's fine for Microsoft to keep almost a quarter for every dollar they take in, because they don't have as much of a stranglehold on our economy as the oil companies? Do you listen to yourself, ever? Personally, while I don't have any like for Gates and his views, if his company can make a decent net profit in the market, good for him. But you can't say that's fine, but not for the oil companies.
If the oil companies were so evil, and had such a monopoly on it, as you say, surely they would be pulling larger net profits than single digits. Your logic doesn't even support itself, let alone your position in this debate. If anything, your argument for Microsoft would support them having more of a monopoly in their market, since they make higher percentages in profits.
The answer as to why no one bitches about Microsoft? Look at who Bill Gates' friends are, and what he stands for. It's an easy picture to see.
now heck lets figure in the fact that americans this last year have cut back on driving and consumption and are consuming about 4% less oil then a few years back and you have oil companies who are looking to make a measly 3-4% this year.
but i know its there strangle hold. the oil companies are forcing us to buy their oil. what you really mean is that even though the u.s. has no real desire to get itself off oil and no real desire to find an alternative oil companies should not be allowed to profit at all right? at 7-5% profit they are barely proffiting. all you do is look at the big number and dont realise they arn't profitting that much. bye the mere fact you think its totally cool for one company to make 24% profit and want to put sanctions on a company that only profits in the single digits is laughable.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:
In 2000, the drug industry's median profit—the middle point between the most and least profitable of the 12 drug companies included—was 19 percent
are you seriously trying to use median profit as a legitimate statistic in this debate? who in the hell cares what the median is? if you take the top 5 companies, one may make 40% profit, while the other 4 each make 4%. the median of the cross section of that market would be 18%. but thats not a true reflection of the market segment at all, now is it?
i'd be willing to do the math for him. i just want him to use statistics that are cogent to the argument at hand.
sndsgood wrote:what you really mean is that even though the u.s. has no real desire to get itself off oil and no real desire to find an alternative oil companies should not be allowed to profit at all right? at 7-5% profit they are barely proffiting.
Actually, since the big oil companies need competition, why doesn't the US government start drilling somewhere and we can have "public option" gas stations. We can fund it with increased taxes on private oil companies. In order to buy the cheap gas from the public option gas stations, your car must get a minimum of 40 MPG, but all private companies will have to be approved by the US government, and their prices will have to be approved, as well as how much you can buy per month, otherise they can not sell gas. People with a household income below 75,000 will be given credits for a certain amount of gas per month. The increased taxes on the gas sold at private stations will fund this.
The government will dictate how much the gas attendant can make, and how much the driver of the tanker truck that delivers the gas to the station can make, and this will bring down the costs. While we're writing this bill, we'll also give grants to truck driving schools who favor minorities. It will be a such a great thing for the American economy!
After all, we need to keep the private sector honest, don't we?
Edited 3 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, August 25, 2009 4:23 PM
Wade Jarvis wrote:I think we have plenty of crap wrong with our health care system that needs to be addressed. I don't think that rushing new legislation to insure everyone is going to fix things. That money has to come from somewhere and with our national debt and printing of money NOW IS NOT THE TIME! I honestly believe it will only make them worse and add new problems. health care is available to anyone. You can not be turned down because you do not have the ability to pay. Many of the "un-insured" are that way by choice! America was not founded on provide for every single person it was founded on every single person having the opportunity which they do have. It was never meant to be a socialized nation. If you are not willing to work for what you want then shut up or GTFO. The United States is not stopping you from moving to a more socialized country.
Question here.... do you consider yourself a Christian ? (I am not questioning your devotion or faith.). I just need a simple answer of yes or no.
Quote:
sndsgood wrote:so oil is only making 12-15% profit +/-. that right there kinda makes me laugh. now 33% is pretty good but not exactly raping you. and as you said, that was just the highest, which means there could be allot of companies down in the 10-15% profit margin, which isnt that tremendous. so many people scream about these companies stealing money when they are just turning a standard profit.
Oil companies have been posting record profits for decades. You can't look at it simply in a perspective of % per dollar. You have to look at the big picture and the BILLIONS of barrels of Oil produced. 15 % profit on billions if not trillions of barrels of oil = $$$$$$. Compare it to the profit margin on other goods such as items at Walmart.. and you see the big picture.
My Cav
I give up...
i'm buying a VW those people love trees, so they should love eachother too... "Andy"
record profits is so blown out of proportion. woo hoo they made more in 08 then they did in 07 how dare they. according to that, i have been earning record profits year after year because i basically get a raise every year so each year i make more money so look im making record profits.
sure they make billions of billions of dollars. but you guys seem to forget that it takes hundreds of billions of dollars that they spend to earn it. 5% is 5% wether its based on 100 dollars or a million dollars. lets compare it to profit margins, but you still base it on a percentage. you can't just base it off the dollar amount. basically your another person that believes a company shouldn't profit. even if by comparison they are profiting a small amouch compared to other companies.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
^The way you make it sound, it's as if they are barely surviving. The industry in 2007 made $2 Trillion, I think $7-10 per gallon should be set, that way they can earn $5 Trillion. With the philosophy some of you all have, I mean let them rip a new one on us. right? Big oil would say screw everybody else, we have the world by the balls and with nobody watching us, we can only up our trillions. And that would be just fine for some of you all.
sndsgood wrote:
now heck lets figure in the fact that americans this last year have cut back on driving and consumption and are consuming about 4% less oil then a few years back and you have oil companies who are looking to make a measly 3-4% this year.
but i know its there strangle hold. the oil companies are forcing us to buy their oil. what you really mean is that even though the u.s. has no real desire to get itself off oil and no real desire to find an alternative oil companies should not be allowed to profit at all right? at 7-5% profit they are barely proffiting. all you do is look at the big number and dont realise they arn't profitting that much. bye the mere fact you think its totally cool for one company to make 24% profit and want to put sanctions on a company that only profits in the single digits is laughable.
I already stated on your question, don't need repeating. And if you think oil industry should be unchecked and not questioned, let them charge $5, $10, $25, $100, $500 per gallon so be it, their greed will fall and the country and the world will go back to basics, Roads will be made of dirt again, plastics will be made of other materials from earth or science lab, transportation will consist of animals or other renewable resource driven, international trips, export, import will be done by wind powered boats/ships. Major life change, yes. But it will show what happens when greed gets out of hand: self implosion.
I couldn't’t find info Microsoft % but found out they made a sizable amount of profit.
On oil, this is the most accurate one I could find.
http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/103679.pdf
Quote:
Oil Industry Profit Review 2007
Summary
Increases in the price of crude oil that began in 2004 pushed the spot price of West Texas Intermediate (WTI), a key oil in determining market prices, to nearly $100 per barrel in the third quarter of 2007. Tight market conditions persisted through the remainder of 2007, with demand growth in China, India, and other parts of the developing world continuing. Uncertain supply related to political unrest in
Nigeria, Venezuela, Iraq, and other places continued to threaten the market and contribute to a psychology that pushed up prices.
The decline of the value of the U.S. dollar on world currency markets, as well as the investment strategies of financial firms on the oil futures markets, has also been identified by some as factors in the high price of oil.The profits of the five major integrated oil companies remained high in 2007, as they generally accounted for approximately 75% of both revenues and net incomes. For this group of firms, oil production led the way as the most profitable segment of the market, even though oil and gas production growth was not strong. The refining segment of the market performed relatively poorly.Independent oil and natural gas producers are small relative to the integrated oil companies, and their financial performance was weaker, with more than half of the firms reporting declines in net income. Independent refiners and marketers also experienced a difficult year that was reflected in profits in 2007. The combination of high crude oil prices that raised their costs and the inability to quickly pass cost increases on to consumers lowered refining margins, resulting in generally declining profits. The potential volatility of the world oil and financial markets, coupled with the weakness of the U.S. and other economies, makes any profit forecast for 2008 highly speculative. While continued high oil prices are likely — the price of oil reached $110 per barrel in the first quarter of 2008 — the ability of the industry to pass those prices on to consumers of gasoline and other products during 2008 is uncertain dueto possibly weakening demand.
In 2007, the oil industry recorded revenues of approximately $1.9 trillion, of which 78% was accounted for by the five major integrated oil companies. Profits for the industry totaled over $155 billion, 75% of which were earned by the five major oil companies, with the largest, ExxonMobil, earning over 25% of the total profit. Although the financial results for the industry were at record levels, the performance
of different sectors of the industry varied, as did the performance of individual companies within those sectors, leaving some firms as relative under-performers compared to the industry leaders.
I wonder if the Antitrust Act is practiced. Like back in the day?
THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.
