^^^
Yes, religious persecution. Not a society that was religion based no matter what religion it was.

Whats this BS about conformity? Does that have anything to do w/ anything?


O and I already stated my reasons for voting "republican" for Pres. I don't party vote because 95% of the time that is just dumb.



05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.523@111.30

Emor8t wrote:Why vote based on a party?


Vote the issues, not the party.

Sadly, you only get one vote per election, and the likelihood that the elected candidate will follow voters' wishes versus party consensus is about 50/50


Scott: In order for there to be a logical trap, you first must assume that I'm using the same logic as you are.. and you know what happens when you assume, right? Face the facts: At the end of EVERY Republican Presidency since Kennedy was assassinated, the US was in a progressively worse and worse position financially, and from a foreign policy standpoint.
Nixon left office with record deficits, a looming oil crisis and had only ended the Vietnam war because there was no possibility of winning.
Regan left office with record debt, deficit and the makings of 9/11/2001, Somalia and Rwanda (it wasn't all his doing, Margaret Thatcher and Brian Mulrooney of Britain and Canada respectively pushed for the ending of reasonable financial aid for 3rd world countries).
GHW Bush left office after compounding the national debt (remember "Read my lips, NO NEW TAXES!"? That was a fraudulent statement if ever I heard one) with greater spending and diminished capacity for the economy to keep itself going (it was the dawn of exporting jobs to China/India). He also pushed for economic sanctions that cemented Saddam Hussein in power for another 12 years, and guarenteed people would die because they had no access to clean water, and no way to trade for it nor medicine.
Dubya is going to leave office having squandered the biggest budgetary surpluses in history, having squandered the good will of scores of nations in the aftermath of 9/11/01, Having committed the USA to a 2 pronged battle against a noun that can't really be won with bombs, bullets, hate and fear.

On the flip side:
- Kennedy began some of the greatest reforms in the country's history regarding race equality, and had an economic policy that was making everyone money (rich, median and poor, and corporations)... A LOT of money.
- LBJ continued the social reforms to help boost education, eradicate disease and poverty, and bring voting rights to all citizens even though most southern congressmen and senators opposed.
- Carter oversaw responsibility in the energy sector so that you wouldn't have had the lights turned permanently out and cars rusting on the side of vacant roads by 1987, He also saw the Camp David Accord become the first real step in Palestinian self-determination, and several other human rights goals achieved. Also, given his economic plan, the US would be out of fiscal trouble by 1988 and on solid footing for the next 20 years.
- Clinton ended up not only repairing the fallout of Reganomics and Bushonmics part I, but after a long recession (created by the incredibly inflated budgets of the preceding presidencies) during which he ended up getting 100,000 more police on the streets and decreasing crime every year he was in office (which is something that no republican president can tout)... to top that all off he ended up leaving Dubya with the best equipped military for rapid deployment, the best economy, and the most secure setting possible while maintaining rights.

Not to say that republicans didn't have their good points, nor the democrats their bad sides, but weigh them against each other, and you'll see Democrats on the whole have been the safe bet for the last 50 years.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

By voting on faith based, you're subjecting to just that... (ONE) faith. You are not representing the country as whole, because your faith dictates what is right or wrong to what others considers wrong or right and extreme. You can't be doing that on a nation made by immigrants from all around the world with different religions, cultures, races, beliefs.

People should vote on issues at hand, not what your pastor, father or rabbi told you over the weekend. Could people really be that lazy or ignorant or worse...both?
Remove religion and you don't have to worry about conforming to all and makes a better representative. -Tweety Bird.


Am I reading this correctly? I shouldn't base my vote according to my religious beliefs because it doesn't represent the country as a whole? What does the country as a whole believe in, because obviously I'm the only one not voting the same as the rest of you. I really can't express how dumb your statement was/ is.

If someone wants to vote Libertarian, because they are for the legalization of drugs and prostitution, (as some prominent Liberterians are such as Larry Elder) then by all means, they have the right to do so. Even thought the vast majority of non-JBO America is against those two issues, it would not be wrong for the Libertarian voter to vote based on his beliefs.

You simply have a problem with people who don't think/ act/ do just like you. Many of the so-called progressive thinkers and self-proclaimed liberals on this site bemoan the cruel and intolerant religious right. The folks that beg for tolerance and open-mindness are the ones who are entirely intolerant and close-minded to anyone else who doesn't share their same beliefs....as evidenced by the rampant anti-religious diatribes on nearly every post.

So one doesn't believe in God or whatever.....great....you just exercised your free right to do so, and you have the right to talk about why you don't...even try to convert others to your "religon". But why the rabid vehemence towards those who hold to a religious faith....why continually try to belittle their beliefs, intelligence, and question the right to express such beliefs? By doing so, you prove my point that YOU are the ones who are intolerant and closed-minded. Now run along and google some chart that illustrates some country that is mostly atheistic (albania?) and post to your heart's content about how they are so much better and further ahead, less crime that the USA.

And GAM, I get your point. You have files that you can cut and paste "proving" the evil scullduggery of every republican to ever hold office and the corresponding world crisis they were responsible for. You do the same thing with your selective polliticking that every other spin doctor does. You pick and choose. I could pull enough factoids about Adolf Hitler, while leaving out the bad....and make a case that he was a pretty good guy. That is assuming that no one remembers that it was ummm Kennedy that got us into Vietnam, LBJ that escaladed the whole mess....and Nixon who ended it (probably at the behest of the KKK and other right-wingy religious types, who did so, for nefarious reasons.)

You gloss over the bad (while making a passing comment like, well both have their good and bad. I guess what I'm getting at GAM, is this: You could list policy after policy which could make every republican past/ present look bad. The same approach would yield the same results for the democrats.
.

oh, and please please please, will someone bring up the crusades, Belfast, and the salem witch trials again, because THAT explains everything.

.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart

Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:Base your vote by Parties' actions, history, and possible future plan, not "what god told me." So much happens because people don't know/learn history, so history repeats itself. Staying informed and learning your past makes a better voter if you will.

People should vote on issues at hand, not what your pastor, father or rabbi told you over the weekend. Could people really be that lazy or ignorant or worse...both?
Remove religion and you don't have to worry about conforming to all and makes a better representative.

this is assuming that all people who vote with their religion in mind vote solely along party lines. quite frankly, that just isnt how it goes. again, the vast majority of my state is democratic. yet, with the exception of the past two elections, they vote predominantly democratic and not republican, the supposed "religious right" even though we have a very high percentage of "religious people".

Quote:

By voting on faith based, you're subjecting to just that... (ONE) faith. You are not representing the country as whole, because your faith dictates what is right or wrong to what others considers wrong or right and extreme. You can't be doing that on a nation made by immigrants from all around the world with different religions, cultures, races, beliefs.

do you not realize that people vote based on religious views because they feel that they are not being represented well? in fact, thats one of the biggest reasons ANYONE votes. to condemn someone for voting based on ANY belief system is unwarranted. again, how do you separate voting for a candidate because he or she is pro-life instead of based on their stance on immigration? what is the difference?

obviously if people vote for a candidate and that candidate is elected, then that means that enough people agreed on the benefits of that candidate. how is that not representing the country? we have a representative democracy here in america and it is set up so that the majority of what people want is done. if the majority of people are religious, how can you possibly say that its wrong? just because you dont personally agree with it?

so let me ask you a few questions:

first, if you are not religious (or even if you are, but dont vote based on it) what DO you base your vote on? and if you say "the issues" then please explain why you believe what you believe and how that has impacted your voting. then explain to me why you can vote based on your own set of beliefs, but condemn others as ignorant or wrong when they do the same thing.

secondly, and perhaps ive just missed this in this post, why vote democrat? since you are wanting specific reasons for why people vote republican, i would like to know specific reasons to vote democrat.

it seems like the biggest problem you have with republicans is that religious people (i.e. christian based religions) seem to gravitate towards them. but you keep neglecting the fact that if the republican candidates or party in general didnt hold the same values as what many of these religious people did, that the religious people wouldnt vote for them. they agree with republican issues so they vote republican. how can that be wrong? because that just makes sense.

Scott, yet again you insult me by not bothering to read the entire post.

Do yourself a favour: Read it.

And please tell me how it was that Republicans have managed to inflate budgets, pork-barrel spending and squander what Democrats have brought to fruition (those surpluses you started 2000 out with were directly attributable to democrat proposed bills to Republican controlled House AND Senate don't forget) and you can just ignore that?

Both have good points and bad, Which is why I said it before hand: I realize there were some serious problems with EVERY presidency, you're making it sound like I've ignored that, which I clearly haven't. However if you think the Reps are lilly white, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you, and let's not mind the fact that I don't own it.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

(tabs) wrote:have you been conditioned to believe that "republican" = rich people? or that "democrat" = poor people? do yourself a favor and read up on this stuff a little before you post dumb @!#$ like that. seriously.

Dude, you have no idea how many times I hear that sh*t! Every time I get into a debate, and I mention I'm a republican.. they (co-workers or random people) immediately start asking how much I make (which they can go f*ck off for asking), and why I'm a republican if I don't make 'x' amount of money. It's such a joke, right around that time I give up.. because they're clearly more ignorant than I previously had thought. I'm not even kidding, I literally hear it every time I get into a debate. It really is sad.

Khanduras wrote:

(tabs) wrote:have you been conditioned to believe that "republican" = rich people? or that "democrat" = poor people? do yourself a favor and read up on this stuff a little before you post dumb @!#$ like that. seriously.

Dude, you have no idea how many times I hear that sh*t! Every time I get into a debate, and I mention I'm a republican.. they (co-workers or random people) immediately start asking how much I make (which they can go f*ck off for asking), and why I'm a republican if I don't make 'x' amount of money. It's such a joke, right around that time I give up.. because they're clearly more ignorant than I previously had thought. I'm not even kidding, I literally hear it every time I get into a debate. It really is sad.

yeah ive gotten the same crap forever too. if you want to make broad generalizations, then at least say that republicans = conservative and democrats = liberal. R = small govt and D = big govt (again, excluding the past 8 years). R = capitalists and D = welfare state.

Sappy96 wrote:^^^
Yes, religious persecution. Not a society that was religion based no matter what religion it was.

Whats this BS about conformity? Does that have anything to do w/ anything?


O and I already stated my reasons for voting "republican" for Pres. I don't party vote because 95% of the time that is just dumb.

To let ya know, when you vote, you vote for a person that represents the nation/country, which is why you want a smart person in office to make allies not foes. Now read my last post how it all ties in.

ScottaWhite wrote:By voting on faith based, you're subjecting to just that... (ONE) faith. You are not representing the country as whole, because your faith dictates what is right or wrong to what others considers wrong or right and extreme. You can't be doing that on a nation made by immigrants from all around the world with different religions, cultures, races, beliefs.

People should vote on issues at hand, not what your pastor, father or rabbi told you over the weekend. Could people really be that lazy or ignorant or worse...both?
Remove religion and you don't have to worry about conforming to all and makes a better representative. -Tweety Bird.


Am I reading this correctly? I shouldn't base my vote according to my religious beliefs because it doesn't represent the country as a whole? What does the country as a whole believe in, because obviously I'm the only one not voting the same as the rest of you. I really can't express how dumb your statement was/ is.

If someone wants to vote Libertarian, because they are for the legalization of drugs and prostitution, (as some prominent Liberterians are such as Larry Elder) then by all means, they have the right to do so. Even thought the vast majority of non-JBO America is against those two issues, it would not be wrong for the Libertarian voter to vote based on his beliefs.

You simply have a problem with people who don't think/ act/ do just like you. Many of the so-called progressive thinkers and self-proclaimed liberals on this site bemoan the cruel and intolerant religious right. The folks that beg for tolerance and open-mindness are the ones who are entirely intolerant and close-minded to anyone else who doesn't share their same beliefs....as evidenced by the rampant anti-religious diatribes on nearly every post.

So one doesn't believe in God or whatever.....great....you just exercised your free right to do so, and you have the right to talk about why you don't...even try to convert others to your "religon". But why the rabid vehemence towards those who hold to a religious faith....why continually try to belittle their beliefs, intelligence, and question the right to express such beliefs? By doing so, you prove my point that YOU are the ones who are intolerant and closed-minded. Now run along and google some chart that illustrates some country that is mostly atheistic (albania?) and post to your heart's content about how they are so much better and further ahead, less crime that the USA.

And GAM, I get your point. You have files that you can cut and paste "proving" the evil scullduggery of every republican to ever hold office and the corresponding world crisis they were responsible for. You do the same thing with your selective polliticking that every other spin doctor does. You pick and choose. I could pull enough factoids about Adolf Hitler, while leaving out the bad....and make a case that he was a pretty good guy. That is assuming that no one remembers that it was ummm Kennedy that got us into Vietnam, LBJ that escaladed the whole mess....and Nixon who ended it (probably at the behest of the KKK and other right-wingy religious types, who did so, for nefarious reasons.)

You gloss over the bad (while making a passing comment like, well both have their good and bad. I guess what I'm getting at GAM, is this: You could list policy after policy which could make every republican past/ present look bad. The same approach would yield the same results for the democrats.
.

oh, and please please please, will someone bring up the crusades, Belfast, and the salem witch trials again, because THAT explains everything.

.

If you are going to quote, quote right, picking and choosing what I say shows you are grasping for air on your argument.
This is what I wrote:

Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:

(tabs) wrote:

Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:It (SHOULD) not, as it is irrelevant when it comes to governing a country/state/city. But for the last 8 years, religious folks has sided republican thinking that the party is in touch with their belief. In practice the party has not been "Christian" in many ways, well except what comes out of the politician's mouth. Actions speak louder then words.
So why vote Republican?

and what do you think IS a good reason to base your vote on, then? again a religion is a set of beliefs.....so how can you say its ok to vote based one set of beliefs (such as voting for a candidate that is for tort reform) but not on your belief that, say, abortion is wrong? where is the defining line?

and casey schaaf: what the hell was that post???

Base your vote by Parties' actions, history, and possible future plan, not "what god told me." So much happens because people don't know/learn history, so history repeats itself. Staying informed and learning your past makes a better voter if you will.

By voting on faith based, you're subjecting to just that... (ONE) faith. You are not representing the country as whole, because your faith dictates what is right or wrong to what others considers wrong or right and extreme. You can't be doing that on a nation made by immigrants from all around the world with different religions, cultures, races, beliefs.

People should vote on issues at hand, not what your pastor, father or rabbi told you over the weekend. Could people really be that lazy or ignorant or worse...both?
Remove religion and you don't have to worry about conforming to all and makes a better representative.

Sappy96 wrote:Crap, build a time machine and tell the Fore-Fathers to change everything. That they didn't found this country on Christian beliefs.....

Our fore-fathers left England to not live under Crown's rule and religious persecution. Yes, our initial laws were based on what is called "common laws," I would say "common sense laws." No stealing, murdering, etc.
But by late 19th century and 20th, the bible has been playing a stronger influence, by ways of the anthem and money we see.
I personally have no problem with that. But I do have a tremendous problem when government sends tax money to fund a religious establishment.

---
Why vote Republican?

Now that we all see what I wrote, lets test your comprehension.

Quote:

Am I reading this correctly? I shouldn't base my vote according to my religious beliefs because it doesn't represent the country as a whole? What does the country as a whole believe in, because obviously I'm the only one not voting the same as the rest of you. I really can't express how dumb your statement was/ is.

Not represent the country as whole, but religious beliefs is IRRELEVANT.

Quote:

You simply have a problem with people who don't think/ act/ do just like you. Many of the so-called progressive thinkers and self-proclaimed liberals on this site bemoan the cruel and intolerant religious right. The folks that beg for tolerance and open-mindness are the ones who are entirely intolerant and close-minded to anyone else who doesn't share their same beliefs....as evidenced by the rampant anti-religious diatribes on nearly every post.
So one doesn't believe in God or whatever.....great....you just exercised your free right to do so, and you have the right to talk about why you don't...even try to convert others to your "religon". But why the rabid vehemence towards those who hold to a religious faith....why continually try to belittle their beliefs, intelligence, and question the right to express such beliefs? By doing so, you prove my point that YOU are the ones who are intolerant and closed-minded. Now run along and google some chart that illustrates some country that is mostly atheistic (albania?) and post to your heart's content about how they are so much better and further ahead, less crime that the USA.

I don't have a problem that think like me, I have a problem for those who just does not think or use common sense, the worse thing about it, those people dominate this nation because of ignorance. You are living of proof of this.
An issue is on the religious extreme , why impose your beliefs on me? What makes you correct? Why make laws based on just ONE belief? Who is closed mined now? Reality check: it is no different then what is happening in the Middle East. And we are suppose to be the modern one? How would you like it if the Muslim religion imposes their beliefs on you?
Like I said before, remove religion from politics and use common sense and you won't have this issue. Common laws FTW?

Quote:

And GAM, I get your point. You have files that you can cut and paste "proving" the evil scullduggery of every republican to ever hold office and the corresponding world crisis they were responsible for. You do the same thing with your selective polliticking that every other spin doctor does. You pick and choose. I could pull enough factoids about Adolf Hitler, while leaving out the bad....and make a case that he was a pretty good guy. That is assuming that no one remembers that it was ummm Kennedy that got us into Vietnam, LBJ that escaladed the whole mess....and Nixon who ended it (probably at the behest of the KKK and other right-wingy religious types, who did so, for nefarious reasons.)

You gloss over the bad (while making a passing comment like, well both have their good and bad. I guess what I'm getting at GAM, is this: You could list policy after policy which could make every republican past/ present look bad. The same approach would yield the same results for the democrats.

Enlighten us fearless one. Remember this thread what it is about : Why vote Republican? Persuade this "undecided voter." Defend your party if you will.

(tabs) wrote:

Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:Base your vote by Parties' actions, history, and possible future plan, not "what god told me." So much happens because people don't know/learn history, so history repeats itself. Staying informed and learning your past makes a better voter if you will.

People should vote on issues at hand, not what your pastor, father or rabbi told you over the weekend. Could people really be that lazy or ignorant or worse...both?
Remove religion and you don't have to worry about conforming to all and makes a better representative.

this is assuming that all people who vote with their religion in mind vote solely along party lines. quite frankly, that just isnt how it goes. again, the vast majority of my state is democratic. yet, with the exception of the past two elections, they vote predominantly democratic and not republican, the supposed "religious right" even though we have a very high percentage of "religious people".

You're right not EVERYBODY votes like that, but unfortunately many do. And if those people were to know their history and distinguish and recognize right from wrong, they would take note that Republican is not their party; As their actions are not Christian-like <<the people who vote for them. Again this is basing off their actions and not a 30min campaign speech.

Quote:

do you not realize that people vote based on religious views because they feel that they are not being represented well? in fact, thats one of the biggest reasons ANYONE votes. to condemn someone for voting based on ANY belief system is unwarranted. again, how do you separate voting for a candidate because he or she is pro-life instead of based on their stance on immigration? what is the difference?

You can separate easily. Prioritize: What is more important to your household, abortion laws or keep your job (because it is being threaten to go to China) in order to put food on the table?

Quote:

obviously if people vote for a candidate and that candidate is elected, then that means that enough people agreed on the benefits of that candidate. how is that not representing the country? we have a representative democracy here in america and it is set up so that the majority of what people want is done. if the majority of people are religious, how can you possibly say that its wrong? just because you dont personally agree with it?

In 2000 the majority was not religious---nee popular vote, no? Where was our representative democracy then? It is wrong because we still have a large percentage of other religions here, this is the US, not Israel, Palestine, China, India... where there is not a high percentage of other religions.

Quote:

so let me ask you a few questions:

first, if you are not religious (or even if you are, but dont vote based on it) what DO you base your vote on? and if you say "the issues" then please explain why you believe what you believe and how that has impacted your voting. then explain to me why you can vote based on your own set of beliefs, but condemn others as ignorant or wrong when they do the same thing.

1. I vote on party track record and what it has done good for this country, I pick candidates on which has a plan to drive this nation forward. 2. What I believe is a plan for good economy, low crime, building in-house, lower deficit, make friends with other nations to avoid costly wars, I can go on and on. 3. My belief in voting is not imposing on any one else, my belief is not making laws that can only benefit a select few. My views are for what is good for America, not what is good for John 3:16.

Quote:

secondly, and perhaps ive just missed this in this post, why vote democrat? since you are wanting specific reasons for why people vote republican, i would like to know specific reasons to vote democrat.

That you would have to make a different thread, but the gist of it, when a democrat has been in power, the nation was better off economically. Government spending was never as crazy as when republicans was in office. Hipocracy was not running rampant, etc.
Also 25+ posts later and I have yet to read on someone convince this open-minded person to vote Republican.

Quote:

it seems like the biggest problem you have with republicans is that religious people (i.e. christian based religions) seem to gravitate towards them. but you keep neglecting the fact that if the republican candidates or party in general didnt hold the same values as what many of these religious people did, that the religious people wouldnt vote for them. they agree with republican issues so they vote republican. how can that be wrong? because that just makes sense.

Biggest problem, religious people? Nope, based on facts alone, there are worse issues on Republicans side, but I do admit, religious extremist IS a problem. I didn't bring up religion someone else did, I just did a rebuttal .
And you say religious extremist vote Republican because candidate/party cater to them, correct? If that is the case, I'll give you a small example of how "Christian" they are. Why are we in wars killing and steal other nation's commodity? Isn't there a important scripture in stone that say: "Thou shall not murder/kill" or "Thou shall not steal?"
Republican: how much are they in touch with their voters?
---
Why vote Republican?


THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

there isnt any real good reason to vote republican just like there isnt any real good reason to vote democratic, you should vote for the person you feel will best do the job.



saying that because ex republican jonny did a bad job back in 72 is no diffrent then saying well that kid in the cavalier was an @!#$ so every kid in a cavalier must be an @!#$.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography

So great! Vote for your reasons and not what is good for John 3:16 !!! Yeyyyy for you! You live in America. Now go about your business and let people vote for the candidate who has red hair instead of blonde, wears wingtips versus loafers, who hates cats versus likes 'em, who is for legalization of weed vs. against it. Vote for the person who is for higher taxes versus the guy who wants to lower them. Vote for the guy who wants to limit religious expression, versus the guy who wants to allow it. By doing so, you have exercised your free right to do so.

I might deride you for your motives, but it is still your right. You can hate on people who vote based on religious beliefs all you want, BUT until you get enough hand-picked Supreme Court Justices in place to take away my rights via the courts, (instead of the legislature) then you can't do anything about it except exercise your right to piss and complain. Have fun....and enjoy America.

.

.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart

i think its cute how you keep calling religious people "extremists" and keep devaluing their opinions based solely on the fact that they are part of an organized religion. they believe one thing and you believe another, but somehow your views trump theirs because....? they have just as much of a right to vote for whom they see fit, based on ANY reason they feel like. although they are doing it for the exact same reasons you claim you are--because they also feel that it will benefit the country--even if you choose to gloss over that aspect.

you think religious people in charge will infringe upon your freedoms? well religious people feel that nonreligious people will trample on their freedoms. its a stalemate so it comes down to who has the more people who agree with them. and thats what happens, with the exception of the 00 presidential race (and i love the fact that dems ALWAYS bring that up but neglect to mention that it has happened how many other times...? cant win em all, bud).

you say that you want to be convinced to vote republican, but lets be honest....youve made up your mind a long time ago about that. same thing with your views on religious people. only a very small few could be considered "extremists" yet you pretend that all religious people are like that. so really, youve made up your mind and no amount of talking will convince you otherwise. thats fine. but please dont act all high and mighty and smug because you think that your ideas are somehow more important than that of others. after all, isnt that what you are accusing the religious people of doing?

Ok, what would be different today if Al Gore was Pres for 8 years instead of Bush?

Sorry Mr. Goodwrench GT I will vote for a republican for Pres again because their interests are more inline w/ mine. Nothing you say will change that.



05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.523@111.30

sndsgood wrote:there isnt any real good reason to vote republican just like there isnt any real good reason to vote democratic, you should vote for the person you feel will best do the job.
saying that because ex republican jonny did a bad job back in 72 is no diffrent then saying well that kid in the cavalier was an @!#$ so every kid in a cavalier must be an @!#$.

None are perfect, but our options are really limited to just these two, unfortunately. But republicans has had a history of lavish spending, with a sour economy, or just plain screwed up the system ever since Nixon. I need insight, why support a party like that, or is it because voters just don't know? I am glad voting is not mandatory.

ScottaWhite wrote:So great! Vote for your reasons and not what is good for John 3:16 !!! Yeyyyy for you! You live in America. Now go about your business and let people vote for the candidate who has red hair instead of blonde, wears wingtips versus loafers, who hates cats versus likes 'em, who is for legalization of weed vs. against it. Vote for the person who is for higher taxes versus the guy who wants to lower them. Vote for the guy who wants to limit religious expression, versus the guy who wants to allow it. By doing so, you have exercised your free right to do so.
I might deride you for your motives, but it is still your right. You can hate on people who vote based on religious beliefs all you want, BUT until you get enough hand-picked Supreme Court Justices in place to take away my rights via the courts, (instead of the legislature) then you can't do anything about it except exercise your right to piss and complain. Have fun....and enjoy America.

Messed up isn't it? And since 2004 candidates from both parties has been going down the drain... Save for Dean and Gravel, Biden & Paul.

(tabs) wrote:i think its cute how you keep calling religious people "extremists" and keep devaluing their opinions based solely on the fact that they are part of an organized religion. they believe one thing and you believe another, but somehow your views trump theirs because....? they have just as much of a right to vote for whom they see fit, based on ANY reason they feel like. although they are doing it for the exact same reasons you claim you are--because they also feel that it will benefit the country--even if you choose to gloss over that aspect.

Calling them by how they are: Extremist. Influence politicians to pass laws to what they interpret from the bible, blow up abortion clinics, protest immorality-- but when it is one of their proud Republicans or Christians they stay mum. They can't just worship on Sunday and keep it for them selfs, no they come knocking at your door trying to tell you live your life wrong. Yet they act and say the darnest things all in the name of god. Yhea, the majority are definitely extreme.

Quote:

you think religious people in charge will infringe upon your freedoms? well religious people feel that nonreligious people will trample on their freedoms. its a stalemate so it comes down to who has the more people who agree with them. and thats what happens, with the exception of the 00 presidential race (and i love the fact that dems ALWAYS bring that up but neglect to mention that it has happened how many other times...? cant win em all, bud).

How is not talking about religion at all in campaigns and not try to make laws based on religion infringe on their freedom? The flip side, Homosexual's civil union can't get benefits like married Hetero folks, a 18 year old girl can't get an abortion at 8-10 weeks, or a Hetero couple jointly living together for 20+ years can't get gov't pension benefits because they are not married. Where do you think these laws derive from? Whose freedom is being infringed upon?

Quote:

you say that you want to be convinced to vote republican, but lets be honest....youve made up your mind a long time ago about that. same thing with your views on religious people. only a very small few could be considered "extremists" yet you pretend that all religious people are like that. so really, youve made up your mind and no amount of talking will convince you otherwise. thats fine. but please dont act all high and mighty and smug because you think that your ideas are somehow more important than that of others. after all, isnt that what you are accusing the religious people of doing?

Yes, I did made my mind up (if Obama wins, I may not vote), which is why I am asking to convince me why I should vote Republican. It is the IN thing to do, right? The country in 2004 was all red, now I wanna know why? What did they so good to get your vote? I am very open minded, hell I may vote Republican for my Governer because his ACTIONS has been great.
And who is acting "high and mighty" (how can you get that from a text and i have not even spoken for my self), please don't confuse that with tell it how it is. Besides all of that is irrelevant to the question and dialogue at hand. Like I said before, I don't want "bible thumpers" making laws to only benefits a select few and worse... give money to religious establishment. That's un-American.

Sappy96 wrote:Ok, what would be different today if Al Gore was Pres for 8 years instead of Bush?

Sorry Mr. Goodwrench GT I will vote for a republican for Pres again because their interests are more inline w/ mine. Nothing you say will change that.

If you didn't read the the first post, the thread was/is not about me convincing you, but you convince me.

Oh and if Gore was president, what would be different? It is no longer on You tube, but watch it here.
http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=1200834247&vw=g&b=0&pos=1&p=Al+Gore+on+Saturday+night+live&fr=ieas





THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

I have no problems with religious people voting for the issues that their religion happens to support. But once it becomes voting for issues or a person or a party to basically make one specific religion, or overall umbrella set of religions the de facto official religion of all of the masses, then i take huge issue.

Again, read the constitution: the 1st amendment give us freedom of religion--even if it's an umpopular one like satanism, paganism, or islam (now).

The estbishment clause says the the govenrment will have no passion or prejudice against any religion-basically freedom from govenrment-enforced religion.

Therein lies the problem. I have no problems with politicians basing their descsions on what they believe, but the minute it crosses the line of passion or prejudice...impeach the bastard or bitch.




Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Quote:

Calling them by how they are: Extremist. Influence politicians to pass laws to what they interpret from the bible, blow up abortion clinics, protest immorality-- but when it is one of their proud Republicans or Christians they stay mum. They can't just worship on Sunday and keep it for them selfs, no they come knocking at your door trying to tell you live your life wrong. Yet they act and say the darnest things all in the name of god. Yhea, the majority are definitely extreme.

you keep lumping ALL religious people together. that needs to stop. you also need to stop watching the MSM and getting your soundbites from them. yes there are a FEW that could be considered extremists, but the majority of religious people denounce those extremists...but due to their extremism they keep getting the media attention.

i really have to stop arguing with you beyond this. you seem to have a deep rooted prejudice against religious people. perhaps youve had a few bad experiences...i dunno? but you definitely have a very VERY slanted and jaded view of religious people as a whole, and Christians in particular. you see only one, small, extreme offshoot and choose to base your arguments on that, completely neglecting the other 99%.

i didnt even have to start that video before i realized that you were posting the WBC. if you honestly think they are a representation of Christianity, then you are sadly mistaken. they are a cult and nothing more than that. their actions and values are NOT the same as Christianity and i get tired when nonreligious people trot them out like a horse and pony show and try to act like those people are the norm or something. they have what....150 members? and they are all family? please. and furthermore, for them to even have been a blip on the radar in this argument, wouldnt they have to have some sort of political pull, as you keep saying that "extremists influence politicians to pass laws"? 150 people in the middle of corn fields do not affect washington.

Quote:

Yes, I did made my mind up (if Obama wins, I may not vote), which is why I am asking to convince me why I should vote Republican. It is the IN thing to do, right? The country in 2004 was all red, now I wanna know why? What did they so good to get your vote? I am very open minded, hell I may vote Republican for my Governer because his ACTIONS has been great.
And who is acting "high and mighty" (how can you get that from a text and i have not even spoken for my self), please don't confuse that with tell it how it is. Besides all of that is irrelevant to the question and dialogue at hand. Like I said before, I don't want "bible thumpers" making laws to only benefits a select few and worse... give money to religious establishment. That's un-American.

voting republican is the "in" thing to do? and you dont think that, just maaaaybe, the democratic candidates for the past 8 years have been @!#$? i mean surely there cant be any reason for voting republican other than being a bible thumping redneck, right? like perhaps we didnt want a neo-hippie like gore in office, or we didnt want a neo-hippie who couldnt make up his mind in office like kerry. we had to vote against them because we're religious zealots. that could be the only reason possible, couldnt it?

its easy to look back on the past 8 years and point out all of the problems with the administration. but you somehow think that, what, kerry could have done a good job? please. i voted for bush in 04 because i didnt like kerry and didnt want HIM to be president. and you can say "but look at what bush did the last 4 years". yeah, his administration went to @!#$ fast. but is there anyway i could have known that at voting time? hell no. the difference between his first 4 and last 4 years are absolutely astounding. i think he did a pretty decent job the first 4 years around, considering the circumstances. again, now we can look back and say "well there were no WMDs" or whatever else. but we certainly didnt know that at the time. so when it came time to vote in 04, i figured id give him a chance to finish things out instead of a wishy-washy liberal who couldnt muster a backbone, much less a thought of his own. but to think that just because i voted for a republican or against a democrat that i am somehow a religious zealot is either ignorant on your part, or you just mudslinging in order to try and devalue my opinions like you keep doing for religious people.

from what ive been told allot of times it takes several years for someoens changes to really make an impact so sometimes its allot harder to tell who did a good job and who did a bad job. look at clinton, when he was in office it was during the big dot com heyday. the econemy was doing fantastic everything was going up and up and up and up and people didnt think there was any stopping it. then the bubble burst at the end of his term and we started on the downward slide heading into a recession. the recession didnt offically start till he was out of office and bush was sworn in. and here bush comes into office to a new recession and everyone was blaming him for the econemy when he really had nothing to do with it. but yet he still took the blame for it as he was being sworn into office. realistically if someone wanted to you can come up with just as much dirt on both parties and point out allot of where both parties have gone wrong. i mean if a democrat is in office but the house and senate is led by republicans at the time which side will really make the most decisions or block the most bills. goes the other way as well. dont vote for the party vote for the person.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography

Why vote Republican?

They will have my vote if Clinton wins the primaries. I am in the Air Force and from her track record my family will suffer under her presidency.

Darryn

2004 Cavalier coupe, 5 speed, White
GO
Hahn Stage 2, Eagle rods, Wiseco 8.9, SS Valves, Dual valve springs, valve job, Ti seats and retainers
spec stage 3, Fidanza 7.5lb flywheel, Short Shifter
Slotted and dimpled rotors, EBC green stuff
SHOW
VIS EVO CF hood, KOBE KAM 5 17", Nexxen N3000, Ebay Black tails and filler, 5% tint
Gold line springs, Tokiko D-spec struts
ELECTRONICS
Kenwood in-dash DVD and Navigation, single Kicker CompVR
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2974835

(tabs) wrote:

Quote:

Calling them by how they are: Extremist. Influence politicians to pass laws to what they interpret from the bible, blow up abortion clinics, protest immorality-- but when it is one of their proud Republicans or Christians they stay mum. They can't just worship on Sunday and keep it for them selfs, no they come knocking at your door trying to tell you live your life wrong. Yet they act and say the darnest things all in the name of god. Yhea, the majority are definitely extreme.

you keep lumping ALL religious people together. that needs to stop. you also need to stop watching the MSM and getting your soundbites from them. yes there are a FEW that could be considered extremists, but the majority of religious people denounce those extremists...but due to their extremism they keep getting the media attention.

i really have to stop arguing with you beyond this. you seem to have a deep rooted prejudice against religious people. perhaps youve had a few bad experiences...i dunno? but you definitely have a very VERY slanted and jaded view of religious people as a whole, and Christians in particular. you see only one, small, extreme offshoot and choose to base your arguments on that, completely neglecting the other 99%.

i didnt even have to start that video before i realized that you were posting the WBC. if you honestly think they are a representation of Christianity, then you are sadly mistaken. they are a cult and nothing more than that. their actions and values are NOT the same as Christianity and i get tired when nonreligious people trot them out like a horse and pony show and try to act like those people are the norm or something. they have what....150 members? and they are all family? please. and furthermore, for them to even have been a blip on the radar in this argument, wouldnt they have to have some sort of political pull, as you keep saying that "extremists influence politicians to pass laws"? 150 people in the middle of corn fields do not affect washington.

I did a rebutle to some elses issue and you still dumping the religious crap on me and not outline to what good has the Republican party done for this nation?
For the last time this my stance.

Quote:

Biggest problem, religious people? Nope, based on facts alone, there are worse issues on Republicans side, but I do admit, religious extremist IS a problem. I didn't bring up religion someone else did, I just did a rebuttal .
And you say religious extremist vote Republican because candidate/party cater to them, correct? If that is the case, I'll give you a small example of how "Christian" they are. Why are we in wars killing and steal other nation's commodity? Isn't there a important scripture in stone that say: "Thou shall not murder/kill" or "Thou shall not steal?"
Republican: how much are they in touch with their voters?

Plainly put. Politicians don't bring religion to law making or spend tax money to religious establishments. Voters exercise your religious right at church, temple, Mosque, home, where ever with friends, family with other religious gatherings, not the White House or any where else in DC. There is a separation of church and state, follow it. That's the American way
I can't make it simpler then that.

(tabs) wrote:

Quote:

Yes, I did made my mind up (if Obama wins, I may not vote), which is why I am asking to convince me why I should vote Republican. It is the IN thing to do, right? The country in 2004 was all red, now I wanna know why? What did they so good to get your vote? I am very open minded, hell I may vote Republican for my Governer because his ACTIONS has been great.
And who is acting "high and mighty" (how can you get that from a text and i have not even spoken for my self), please don't confuse that with tell it how it is. Besides all of that is irrelevant to the question and dialogue at hand. Like I said before, I don't want "bible thumpers" making laws to only benefits a select few and worse... give money to religious establishment. That's un-American.

voting republican is the "in" thing to do? and you dont think that, just maaaaybe, the democratic candidates for the past 8 years have been @!#$? i mean surely there cant be any reason for voting republican other than being a bible thumping redneck, right? like perhaps we didnt want a neo-hippie like gore in office, or we didnt want a neo-hippie who couldnt make up his mind in office like kerry. we had to vote against them because we're religious zealots. that could be the only reason possible, couldnt it? its easy to look back on the past 8 years and point out all of the problems with the administration. but you somehow think that, what, kerry could have done a good job? please.

Hey I couldn't agree more with Kerry (garbage at it's finest), I mentioned that up there to "Scotty." Oddly the one that could win over Bush was Dean and he was winning the primaries... but the man yelled "yheaaa" and people got scared? Kerry... heh i am weary as to why/ how he even won the democratic primary. It is all to weird that Bush and Kerry went to the same school, were good friends and were in the same high society of "Bone and Skull." It make you want to think to what the F happened here?

Quote:

i voted for bush in 04 because i didnt like kerry and didnt want HIM to be president. and you can say "but look at what bush did the last 4 years". yeah, his administration went to @!#$ fast. but is there anyway i could have known that at voting time? hell no. the difference between his first 4 and last 4 years are absolutely astounding. i think he did a pretty decent job the first 4 years around, considering the circumstances. again, now we can look back and say "well there were no WMDs" or whatever else. but we certainly didnt know that at the time. so when it came time to vote in 04, i figured id give him a chance to finish things out instead of a wishy-washy liberal who couldnt muster a backbone, much less a thought of his own. but to think that just because i voted for a republican or against a democrat that i am somehow a religious zealot is either ignorant on your part, or you just mudslinging in order to try and devalue my opinions like you keep doing for religious people.

Bush's first 4 years were just as @!#$tty as his last. He stepped into office and the economy started going down fast, what did he do? Nothing. After 9-11 him and the feds decided to lower interest rates (good band-aid fix for the short term) but with jobs still being lost nationwide. Good move right? How the hell are the people going to pay for it if no income comes in? We are in the rut now because of this.
WMD? There wasn't any! The UN ground unit told this man that there wasn't any!!! Our intelligence told this man there wasn't any!!! This man's had a gung-ho mission to remove Hussein no matter what!!! Didn't you see/read Bush's campaign speeches in 1999/2000? That was Bush's outline since day one! This was and is a Bush/oil industry war and WE are funding this BS? Isn't the Republican's platform to NOT do outrageous spending? But look at Nixon's, Reagan's Bush Sr's, Bush Jr's spending spree and how much our debt has grown.
Bush has lied to us since day one and people just lower their heads and say yes sir and believe to what ever he says. And we just continue to spend, to what he says we need. Are we living in a monarchy?

----
Why vote Republican?


THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:Plainly put. Politicians don't bring religion to law making or spend tax money to religious establishments. Voters exercise your religious right at church, temple, Mosque, home, where ever with friends, family with other religious gatherings, not the White House or any where else in DC. There is a separation of church and state, follow it. That's the American way
I can't make it simpler then that.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

This doesn't state nor was it ever meant to prohibit religious views from influencing political decisions as long as the decisions don't promote one religion over others or infringe upon any religion. Tax money can be spent upon religious establishments as long as other religions get the same benefits. Nowhere in the constitution does it mention a separation of church and state, that actually came from letters penned by Jefferson

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

Nowhere in the constitution does this term exist.

well, well, well.....doesn't that just burn your grits?

.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart

"Bush's first 4 years were just as @!#$tty as his last. He stepped into office and the economy started going down fast, what did he do? Nothing."



looks like we have another person that believes bush was responsible for the econemy going down. sorry but the econemy was dropping fast before the voters ever put bush into office.bush didn't cause the recession. the recession was well on its way allready. and its not really the presidents job to fool with the econemy.

the first time bush pushed for the tax rebate democrats were heavily against it. now that this year is an election year and bush is calling for tax breaks, all the democrats are all for it. seems that apparently the only time giving out money is good is when it's an election year. and in all honesty i think its just going to hurt the econemy more in the long run.



and as for the wmd. more then bush voted to go to war.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography

I vote Republican because if we don't have decent homeland security... nothing else is going to matter.


Desert Tuners

“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”

Labotomi wrote:

Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:Plainly put. Politicians don't bring religion to law making or spend tax money to religious establishments. Voters exercise your religious right at church, temple, Mosque, home, where ever with friends, family with other religious gatherings, not the White House or any where else in DC. There is a separation of church and state, follow it. That's the American way
I can't make it simpler then that.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

This doesn't state nor was it ever meant to prohibit religious views from influencing political decisions as long as the decisions don't promote one religion over others or infringe upon any religion. Tax money can be spent upon religious establishments as long as other religions get the same benefits. Nowhere in the constitution does it mention a separation of church and state, that actually came from letters penned by Jefferson

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

Nowhere in the constitution does this term exist.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
Really?
NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion.
Actions:
In order to get your VISA or citizenship quicker or gurantee it, you must get married. Homosexual's civil union can't get benefits like married Hetero folks, a 18 year old girl can't get an abortion at 8-10 weeks, or a Hetero couple jointly living together for 20+ years can't get gov't pension benefits because they are not married. Where do you think these laws derive from?
Sounds to me we are respecting the laws of Christianity. No?

If tax money will be spent on religious establishment (I personally would not send a dime), be fair... send to Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Mormons, Jehovah witness, Quakers, Scientologists, etc. Not just Christians. Because this is exactly where it has been going the passed years. Looks like another: "respecting an establishment of ( A ) religion.
Thomas Jefferson and John Locke must be turning over in their grave.

And like I said above. What is more important? What is more important to your household, abortion laws or keep your job (because it is being threaten to go to China) in order to put food on the table?
This is why religion should be left out of politics and campaigns. REAL issues are not talked about, we are BSing on the the rights for homos not to get married, but nobody talks about how come oil refineries has not built and we are paying the price at the pump. The oil IS there, the gas isn't. $55+billion (gross) was made in profit by Exxon alone, you'd think they would spend it on a refinery here? Why no ban on assault weapons? Do we really need to shoot 100 rounds in 10 seconds?
Why so much emphasize on religion and not the problems we face? Is someone afraid to stand up to it?

FReQ Z (ikE-Zed) wrote:I vote Republican because if we don't have decent homeland security... nothing else is going to matter.

Our 'Homeland security" will do is, give off the same ability as $50 car alarm: False sense of security.


THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:

FReQ Z (ikE-Zed) wrote:I vote Republican because if we don't have decent homeland security... nothing else is going to matter.

Our 'Homeland security" will do is, give off the same ability as $50 car alarm: False sense of security.

I was speaking more of our armed forces, the moral and welfare of those who serve, and not the DoHS.


Desert Tuners

“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”

Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:

Labotomi wrote:

Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:Plainly put. Politicians don't bring religion to law making or spend tax money to religious establishments. Voters exercise your religious right at church, temple, Mosque, home, where ever with friends, family with other religious gatherings, not the White House or any where else in DC. There is a separation of church and state, follow it. That's the American way
I can't make it simpler then that.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

This doesn't state nor was it ever meant to prohibit religious views from influencing political decisions as long as the decisions don't promote one religion over others or infringe upon any religion. Tax money can be spent upon religious establishments as long as other religions get the same benefits. Nowhere in the constitution does it mention a separation of church and state, that actually came from letters penned by Jefferson

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

Nowhere in the constitution does this term exist.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
Really?
NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion.
Actions:
In order to get your VISA or citizenship quicker or gurantee it, you must get married. Homosexual's civil union can't get benefits like married Hetero folks, a 18 year old girl can't get an abortion at 8-10 weeks, or a Hetero couple jointly living together for 20+ years can't get gov't pension benefits because they are not married. Where do you think these laws derive from?
Sounds to me we are respecting the laws of Christianity. No?

No, It sounds like they are coming from common sense
it doesn't. You only choose to look at it that way. Do you really think that Christianity is the only religion that prohibits homosexuals from getting married. Do you know the kind of abuse the system would endure if you allowed non married couples to get benefits? I personally am not against homosexual marriages as long as they don't get any preferential or additional benefits than heterosexual marriages. Visa and citizenships are granted to married people faster because one of those people is already an American citizen.

Abortion isn't only a religious stance, it's a pro lift stance. the same girl that can't get an abortion at 8-10 weeks can get one earlier and that goes against Christianity, so your argument is poorly suited to the topic. Murder is murder no matter what your religion (well, maybe it's a jihad in Islam, but I've never heard a jihad being called on an 8 week old fetus).

Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:
If tax money will be spent on religious establishment (I personally would not send a dime), be fair... send to Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Mormons, Jehovah witness, Quakers, Scientologists, etc. Not just Christians. Because this is exactly where it has been going the passed years. Looks like another: "respecting an establishment of ( A ) religion.
Thomas Jefferson and John Locke must be turning over in their grave.

Provide proof that Christian churches get greater benefits than Islamic Mosques or Mormons or Jewish establishments. The benefits (tax breaks) are used by all recognized religions. Any benefit that the Christian churches get are also available to the other recognized religions.

Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:
And like I said above. What is more important? What is more important to your household, abortion laws or keep your job (because it is being threaten to go to China) in order to put food on the table?
This is why religion should be left out of politics and campaigns. REAL issues are not talked about, we are BSing on the the rights for homos not to get married, but nobody talks about how come oil refineries has not built and we are paying the price at the pump. The oil IS there, the gas isn't. $55+billion (gross) was made in profit by Exxon alone, you'd think they would spend it on a refinery here? Why no ban on assault weapons? Do we really need to shoot 100 rounds in 10 seconds?
Why so much emphasize on religion and not the problems we face? Is someone afraid to stand up to it?

What the "real" issues are to you are not what the "real" issues are to everyone.

Who should spend money on a refinery? The government? That's not their job. If another company comes in and wants to build one, I'm sure it'll be ok with everyone. If you really think that Exxon is not building refineries to keep prices inflated, then you really don't understand economics at all. I guess you think nintendo is not making enough wiis to keep the price up also.

If you haven't noticed, the dollar is really weak right now which is making labor cheaper in this country than others. If things don't change, you'll begin to see those jobs coming back to the US.

But to address your comment. I want what's right for the country for the long term not just what's right for me and my family at this particular moment. I think that politicians with strong religious beliefs are better suited than the ones without to lead this country for the long haul. Sometimes you sacrifice a battle to win the war.

I'm not in your position. The economy may have more of an effect on you than it does me. I'm not hurting right now and don't think I will for quite some time. I'll vote based on what I thinks best and you try and vote for what you thinks best. We both have to live with the results.


.