Rodimus Prime wrote:Stooping low? What party is that Delay guy with? You know the one going to prison?

Which party is the Kennedy guy with? The one who killed the girl by leaving her to drown?

I don't find it hard to believe at all that Bush is saying he authorized this info. I mean hell all he would have to do in his mind is declassify this document now and "say" he authorized Delay to give out the info. Looks like a backdoor way out to me.


<img src="http://www.j-body.org/registry/kaoz78/personal_pic.jpg">

Mmm I love it. Your guy did this. Well your guy did that. That justifies it all. Your guy is a piece of $@!#$, well your guy was a piece of $hit before. Bah.

Ahhh, The democratic way. Once you've been shown to be wrong yell and call names.
So you insist the media is not biased? I suggest you open your eyes and actually watch the news rather then just listen to what they tell you. The major news corporations in this country spoon feed you all the info the democrats want you to know. Case in point
who here remembers a certain news anchor man who lost his job for reporting such blatantly biased crap the networks couldn't cover for him anymore. Yup good old Dan Rather made a fine name for himself reporting all the democratic views from as far left as his arm could reach, but then sadly he went on the air with unproven lies about a certain presidential candidate and got busted in front of the whole country and made to look like a fool. He resigned shortly there after. I can list more if you like, or I could suggest you read a book titled "Biased" its about news agencies and how they push the
liberal democratic views on all of us. But then if you actually did read it then you may be forced to actually think for yourself as opposed to being spoon fed. Tell me which do you prefer?




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Haha Jackalope. Someone's been drinking the kool-aid.

Yes and you must have been hitting Teddy Kennedies "punch" if you believe for one second the media coverage in this country is fair and unbiased.

Laugh all you want but the truth isn't funny.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Jack: I've pointed to it before, but I'll keep on doing it until you read the book (okay.. the first Chapter... it's basically laid out in the introduction:

David Brock: The Republican Noise Machine

The GOP has 3 big things going for it:
1. Rupert Murdoch: owns News Coporation and Fox TV.
2. The Heiritage Foundation, and several other "think-tanks" that skew information out of context and purport it as fact.
3. Asks for "fair" reporting, and denounces objective reporting as "Liberal Media Bias" because it's re-told the myth so often, people believe it.

Seriously, read the book... David Brock used to work for the GOP in Media Relations. He shows that, far aside from conservative assertions, the media is balanced, and reports FACTS and HAPPENINGS. If you want to talk about editorials, there's differences, and that's not News reporting, that's commentary. You know how if Madden says something utterly inane, stupid or foolish during a football game? That's editorial. Treat it the same way.

When you're done that, realise that the source of the "Liberal Media Bias" is a left-over from Nixon's first term in office and how the breaking of the Watergate scandal (ie, the reporting of misdeeds by a sitting President that led to his inevitable impeachment, with a Republican controlled house) led to his ingraceful resignation and quick departure to avoid getting the boot and facing charges.

You're buying into a myth that was created by a liar, and has been perpetuated by cheats for years. Open your eyes.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Gam I will see if I can get a copy of that book from the library and I will actualy try to read it rather then just dismiss it. I'm dying out of curiousity to see how the author can explain away such blatently biased news stories that we've had in recent memory.
EXAMPLE: Dan Rather saying that the Vietnam war was over and nothing that happened back then means anything or should have any bearing on elections held today. That was said in an editorial piece by Mr. Rather while defending John Kerry and the medal throwing incident. Then not even 2 weeks later does an in depth expose on
where was Bush during the last days of the Vietnam war where Mr. Rather made the war a very big deal and even tho the White House did in fact supply all the records asked for to prove Bush did indeed complete the National Gaurd duty he was required to. But I bet you didn't know that right? Bush actualy DID prove where he was and what he was doing and that he completed his duty. But to listen to the news media he didn't. This is exactly what I'm getting at.

Anyway I would have you check out a couple books yourself Gam.

BIAS: A CBS insider exposes how the media distorts the news. BY: Bernard Goldberg
or
SLANDER:Liberal lies about the American right. BY:Ann Coulter
or
What Liberal Media? The truth about bias and the news. BY: Eric Alterman
or
Do As I Say ( Not As I Do ): Profiles in liberal hypocrasy. BY: Peter Scheizer
or
How To Talk To A Liberal ( If You Must ) BY: Ann Coulter ( I'm currently reading this one so yours will be next I swear! Like I said I'm curious )

Check out any of these books and if you actualy read them you'll see exactly what I've been talking about. Its impossible to miss.






Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Your reading a book by Ann Coulter? Well, that could be your first mistake. Consider the author of the books your reading before you go about believing every word they write. And the Dan Rather thing, well I'll give you that simply because I have no desire to defend Rather. As Gam stated, the liberal bias is simply nonexistent. The republicans and Fox News have made sure of that. Let me ask you a question Jackalope. Do you watch FOX News? If so, do you consider it unbiased news? Or better yet, do you consider it news at all? If you answered yes to any of those, then that is your problem. All Fox News is is republican talking points spouted as news. Republicans go on any of the editorial type shows and will be cheered and asked fluffy questions. Then a democrat comes on and is backed into a corner with loaded and ridiculous questions. I'd be thrilled if they did the same to both parties because all politicians should be destroyed by the media and asked the tough questions, but when only one side recieves that treatment there is obviously a bias. Remember the Downing Street Memos? Remember how the liberal media went on a tirade about them and asked the president and republicans those hard hitting questions? Oh, that's right. The memos were reported for maybe a day and then forgotten about by the media. But they are so liberal biased that they couldn't continue reporting on a story that proved Bush was dead set on Iraq and was searching for political justification to go in.

Tristan prehaps you should try and read any of those books before you start trying to know what they say. First off Coulter has taken swipes at Bush so your already wrong in your assumptions of them in thier entirety. And as for Rather you'd rather not defend him because you can not, after all his bold faced left leaning lies are why he was made to resign in the first place.

Ann Coulter is at times a bit angry but its usualy with good reason. Like when shes misquoted or quoted out of context. I won't defend everything she has to say but thats not to say everything she says is crap. For example I bet you didn't actualy know that the time Democrats want Bush to account for in the National Gaurd were in fact accounted for. GASP!! But they never said that on CNN did they? Nope just one leading Democrat after another wanting more when it was already answered and proved! But the media isn't biased.....wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Just like Clinton never had sexual relations with Monica Lewinski right? And no I'm not defending FOX news either, I'm well awair they lean to the right but seeing how you lefties have CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, and most other news organizations it only seems fair that they have one, doesn't it?

I would challenge you to read at least the very first one on the list if not all. Or are you afraid you won't like what your shown?






Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

I have a hard time believing the media is liberal when they gave Cheney such a HUGE free pass for shooting his buddy. No hunter I know of said his story made any sense.

Not one.

And I have a lot of redneck friends. I live in Clovis, after all.


---

Jackalope, you crack me up. The only guy on any of those channels that refuses to just accept Bush's word for everything is Keith Olbermann. Have you ever watched Cris Matthews? He drank the koolaid my friend.

Umm, and I never said Clinton didn't have sex with Monica. In fact, I'm positive he did. But let me give you a scenario. Say Bush wasn't president for the last six years, but instead Clinton was. Now consider if Clinton did everything exactly the same as Bush. The media would have CRUCIFIED him because the republicans would make an uproar about how liberal biased they were and all that. Clinton would have been impeached and considered a disgrace. But Bush can get away with what he wants because the media fear the dreaded liberal bias stamp put on them. Again, the Downing Street Memos. Where was the liberal biased media on that?

Ann Coulter is crazy woman no matter her politics. And if she took a swipe at Bush she probably did it by accident. Her politics are barely the justification I have for disliking her and not believing a word she says.

AGuSTiN, Um maybe because it was investigated by the police and no charges were filled because it was an accident. If you've ever been in a field with guns you'd know accidents can happen and people can get hurt. And free pass my ass! The media kept up and kept up till the White House spokesman finally said enough and put his foot down and refused to answer anymore questions. My cousin had almost the same thing happen to him. He was hunting with his life long friend and the two got seperated and birds flushed to my cousins right and he turned and fired at them. Well he got the bird and his friend in the face. 911 was called the ambo came and so did the police and after a week long investagation it was determined to be a hunting accident and no charges were ever filed. Same thing here. No big deal sh-t happens.


Tristan it sounds like your a big Coulter fan, would that be safe to say? (sarcasm )
Thats fine you can hate her if you like but as I said read at least the first book on the list and get back to me. Don't stand here and try to argue when you only see one side thats called being biased. Look at it from both sides and get back to me. Hey I said I'd read the book Gam suggested and I plan to fully. I'm actualy going to request it from the library and read it. I would suggest the same of you before we continue the who's biased arguements.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

She is the same woman that said all Canadians use dog-sleds and should consider our selves "lucky" to be located next to the US. That woman has about as much credibility as Al Copone, maybe less.

PAX

^ ^ ^ ^ You mean no dog sled? HAHA I don't doubt your word I'd just like to see the statement and in what context it was made. Was it a joke? Or sarcasm? If not then I agree thats not being very nice.

Guys I said clearly in fact I do not support everything she says but rather some things.
Hey even a broken clock is right twice a day and shes funny with some of her rants.
Give me a break! Geez!!




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Jackalope wrote:AGuSTiN, Um maybe because it was investigated by the police and no charges were filled because it was an accident. If you've ever been in a field with guns you'd know accidents can happen and people can get hurt. And free pass my ass! The media kept up and kept up till the White House spokesman finally said enough and put his foot down and refused to answer anymore questions. My cousin had almost the same thing happen to him. He was hunting with his life long friend and the two got seperated and birds flushed to my cousins right and he turned and fired at them. Well he got the bird and his friend in the face. 911 was called the ambo came and so did the police and after a week long investagation it was determined to be a hunting accident and no charges were ever filed. Same thing here. No big deal sh-t happens.

From what I understand, the amount of birdshot or whatever that was in him indicates a shot at close range, which doesn't jibe with Cheney's account?

Is that true or not?


---

Read the one by Bernie Goldstein... It should be noted that he was DISMISSED from CBS before writing that book, a fact he doesn't happen to address. I've also listened (while holding my sides, true story) to his book 100 people that are screwing up america, but, he didn't happen to list himself or 279,999,900 other people that are doing it as well, this should be noted.

As for Ann Coulter, again, I thought it was a comedy book... Okay.. seriously, She makes a couple salient points, but the fact that she's making comments like "We're letting them (Canada) exist as a nation" makes the points she's made in previous books as well pretty laughable. She's called the leader of the Rabid Right for a reason, she sounds like the Taliban (she was infact, listed in the American Taliban hit list). Seriously, she clerked for a judge before embarking on her writing career, and honestly, she should have stuck with that. You know how you said that a busted clock is right 2x a day? it's only right for 2 minutes, which if you look at it, isn't even 1% of the time of the day.

Coulter would do well to be even that close

Seriously, though, Coulter's ideas and arguments are the most blatantly Jingoist that I've heard that wasn't from a person wearing a white jacket with curiously long arms.


If you're looking for David Brock's book, he references a couple pro-GOP books, the only one I haven't found is called The News Twisters, it's the first mentioned, but it's also from the 50's IIRC. A lot of the ground work starts in the Barry Goldwater era (late 50's)... It's pretty intriguing, and I admit I bought into the idea that the media was imbalanced. Once you start learning that broadcast utlities are bound by different rules than cable/satellite entities, you start seeing why the GOP has gained purchase with networks like Fox, MSNBC, and CNN. With the exception somewhat of CNN, the other 2 have not until very recently been openly critical of the Bush regime.





Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

the media bias exists on both fronts. The way to disseminate information properly:

Watch a stereotypcally "liberal" news station...like, say, CNN.
Watch a stereotypical "conservative" news station...like fox news.
Watch a foreign (as in not U.S. or canadian news station) that supports the U.S.
Watch a foreign news station that has no love for the u.s.

Interpolate and extrapolate data.

What you have is about the closest thing to the truth that you can get.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

More often than not, though Keeper: The recounting of events is pretty much neutral. It's when the reporter starts inferring opinion or tries to contextualise an event within a certain scope, is when the bias becomes apparent.

One of the reasons I stick to print media for that kind of stuff... I don't want Geraldo Rivera telling me what to think. The guy got fat sucked out of his ass and into his lips on his talk show FCOL.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Gam, Goldstein does in fact say the book is what cost him his job. I believe ( if memory serves ) that its on page 2 or 3 but I know its not past page 5.

I will however check out the book you suggested as soon as I'm finished with this one.
But in all seriousness I've seen how some of her quotes are twisted and tried to be turned into other things. I'm not saying she didn't say what your stateing she did but I would like to see the actual quote or to see what context it was said in.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Jack: I've got a serious problem with some ditz that says that America "ALLOWS" other countries to exist. That's not a Misquote... THAT WAS FROM A FOX NEWS BROADCAST!!! I heard it with my own ears, from the horse's mouth. It's pretty damned hard to misinterpret that.

In regards to Goldstein: did he mention why he was fired? It was because he ripped his boss a new one about the "liberal bias" in the media by calling Rather's integrity into issue. I don't know about you, but if I wrote a piece that calls my boss's integrity into question, I'd be pretty sure I'd be committing this thing that's inelegantly known as a CLM (career limiting maneuver) or quite literally, Career Suicide. In all his writings, he seems to be still GENUINELY SURPRISED that he was fired... I mean, slap your boss in the face and see what it gets ya.

I've read the Goldstein book, and he contradicts himself. He admits that the (liberally slanted) media didn't go soft on Clinton. He doesn't go into ANY depth about how badly Gore got trashed in 2000 (read the Brock book for more on that.. there are actual quotes, and references to follow-ups). There isn't any coverage of the 2000 election at all! (the book was written and published in late 2001) Goldstein has a bone to pick because he's pissed that his ideas on how some stories were portrayed didn't jive with his ideas... I mean, he goes off about an insect mating documentary. Seriously... that just smacks of the insidiousness of liberal Bias. </sarcasm>

The Brock book (There's actually 2... the earlier one is called Blinded by the Right) actually cites studies by media research centers that are not funded by any political parties, but by Universities and actually publish their findings.

Goldstein proffers opinion as fact... Apparently, the big bad left-winger media editors and conglomorates can overlook some serious flaws in the Bush campaign platform (ie, finance/budget problems, govt reform, immigration issues, tax cuts that aren't even close to balanced.. etc, etc.) and utterly make a mockery out of Gore, and rip Clinton for literally years on end, but still be in cahoots with the Left anyhow.

Really, if you take an objective look at it, broadcast media is going to do whatever it can to suck in as many warm and breathing listeners it can. Print media has to be a bit more careful because it's a lot easier to microfilm a newspaper than it is to record every minute of air-time.

The myth is old, and is just as fragrant today as it was in the 50's when it was started with the News Twisters.

http://media.eriposte.com/summary.htm

When you're done with that:
What Liberal Media?
Worse Than Watergate
The Right Nation - Conservative Power in America

Why would a canuck read these? It's starting to happen here... and I'm not impressed at all.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

So he called Dan Rathers integrity into question? Oh the horrors!! Hey why did Dan have to resign again? Oh Wait !! Thats right.....for his obveious liberaly slanted reporting that CBS could no longer cover for. He went to air with a made up story with no facts to back him up and showed the whole world how far left he really is. Thats why hes known as "RED Dan Rather" because hes so far left hes almost communist. Geez Gam I've heard of giveing a bad example of somethng before but you earned yourself a cookie with that arguement.

As for Coulter I didn't hear her say it but I have no reason to doubt you. But like I said I do not support everything that comes from her mouth but shes right on with some stuff
and I know you all have dog sleds!

And I said I would check it out and I have every intention of doing just that. So if I PM you and need the title again please give it to me so I can get the book.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

I did not see anywhere in this article where it states that bush leaked any information. It does say he declassified, states it in the very beginning. It also states that the information didnt contain Valerie Plames name. So....what is on debate again?


____________________________________________________________________

Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.

You caught that too huh? LOL !! Go read my first post I said the EXACT same thing you just did. Great minds really do think alike!




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

I just wanna know.. Who in there right mind names their kid "Scooter"/ That name is for dogs and charaters on the Muppet Show.

PAX