I have never supported bush. Voted for Quail, then Kerry.

Bush and his father hurt our country immensly. It is the uninformed vote and dedication to "vote republican" because its the "right thing" to do is what won Bush not 1 but 2 elections. The second election was not won by any percentage to be proud about despite what Bush may believe. I know countless numbers of people who voted Bush because they thought he would "do better" or because "Kerry is a douchebag", any informed individual would realize that both men arn't people arn't perfect, but IMO Bush proved he was incompetent. Unfortunately presidency is a popularity contest for many Americans.

Gam: On the republican thing. Many of the current republicans do not agree with Bush or the current administration. Many believe the ideals and desires of the republican beliefs and way of doing business have been thrown aside as well.



-Chris

I understand that Rascal.. I just found it funny that they were basically rubberstamping things for about 8 years, and toeing the party line without even thinking of what they were doing or how it's longer term ramfications would affect the country and the world at large.

I'd really question how wise it is to support such a fickle party. I mean, you hear about flip-flopping in regards to Kerry, and while it is disconcerting, how much more is it disconcerting that the Reps. have, as a group, been following along on a ship that's been not only running contrary to their party's stated intentions, but now is running into some very treacherous waters, and only NOW decide to abandon the president.

It's just cause for the abolition of political parties... vote for what is good for the people that elected you, not a few highly placed individuals.

I realise that there is about a snowball's chance in hell of the abolition of all political parties, but, really, something needs to be done to cut down the power base and return it to the people.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

hah, there were spaces between my paragraphs when i wrote it, but my computer is mildly inept so i don't know what happened.

What has really made me upset with him lately, is when there was talk in congress about making a bill to stop the dubai company from running our ports, he went straight out saying he would veto anything that came to him.

That pissed me off. He must have known by then most of the people were against it. Instead of coming out and saying he would excercise the veto, he should of said, "OK lets look deeper into this deal" or something along that line.

That's what's prompting congress to bring up a bill of censure.

I think that people are starting to really twig the fact that he's basically a back-pocket President for foreign oil interests.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

I wouldn't say I lost confidence in him....more like, this crap reaffirms my total dislike of him as a President, and my opinion that he has got to be the biggest moron in the country.

Who's the bigger moron, the president or those that elected him (I'm talking the GOP and voting populace at large)?




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

His first 4 years were fine. He stopped a resession started during Cliton's last year in office and was doing a pretty good job. Then 9 / 11 happened and he started doing a better job. But sometime between sending troops to Afganistan and sending them into Iraq he started to skid a little. Then his second term comes about and hes now in a full on uncontrolable skid heading for a cliff and all his buddies are bailing out. Who can blame them?

But to call the voteing public morons is a little harsh Gam. I mean look at what we were given as choices. Dumb and Dumber. On one hand you have a guy who can't seem to say the same thing twice and when asked about it goes off at people saying hes never flip floped even after its been prooved he did! That made him look like not only a flip floping can't decide to save his life kinda person but also a lyer and a bully for yelling at people. Basicly a monumental ass hat that noone knows what he'll say or do next.
On the other hand you have the current president who jumped the gun and rushed into Iraq with little proof of the WMD's he was told were there, rumors aren't proof. And that did a great job rallieing the nation after the worst attack its ever seen. Sure he can't speek in pubic and has a hard time remembering his own name but so far so good.

No one could have forseen the crap we'd be getting into, no one. I think as of late he's screwing up pretty big but given the choice we had thanks to the democrates for not haveing a single canidate worth a sh-t !

I just hope this time around we get somebody in office who is gonna make things right.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

A friend of mine (Came here from Russia 12 years ago and is currently re-enlisting in the army) once said something that had me laughing the other night...

"Seig Heil Adolf Bu@!#$ler!!"

Actually, the voting public at large ARE morons because we're actualy buying into this two-party political system.

Consider the last election, if you will. Pick another party at random, the majority of voters vote for that candidate from some one-off party (reform, libertarian, green, whig, whatever). They get elected president.

Imagine the slap on the face that would do to the DNP and the RNP. The fallout would be great!

But NOOOOO we have to be morons on a level equal with Bush and *actually* believe that there's only two sides to every issue.

Garbage In, Garbage Out.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

In the sence that the 2 party system is a joke I completly agree with you Keeper. Most people only will vote for their party no matter who is running and I believe thats a huge part of the problem if not the whole problem itself.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Jackalope wrote:His first 4 years were fine. He stopped a resession started during Cliton's last year in office and was doing a pretty good job. Then 9 / 11 happened and he started doing a better job. But sometime between sending troops to Afganistan and sending them into Iraq he started to skid a little. Then his second term comes about and hes now in a full on uncontrolable skid heading for a cliff and all his buddies are bailing out. Who can blame them?

The recession wasn't going to be a depression... just remember a recession is defined as 2 quarters of downward trading... at the time, the economy was a little shaky because of Enron and WorldCom and the general Tech collapse. It would have likely corrected soo enough...the problem is that the correction had nothing to do with Bush. 9/11/01 didn't help at all, but the solution really was worse than the downturn.

Quote:

But to call the voteing public morons is a little harsh Gam.

I didn't call anyone a moron I only posed a question. True, I couched it in a poor light, but really...

Quote:

I mean look at what we were given as choices. Dumb and Dumber.

Dumb and dumberer... lets get it right here.

I've never been a fan of Bush, and I think Dean would have been a more worthy competitor... it's water under the bridge, but it just goes to show what one ill-timed scream can do.

Quote:

On one hand you have a guy who can't seem to say the same thing twice and when asked about it goes off at people saying hes never flip floped even after its been
prooved he did! That made him look like not only a flip floping can't decide to save his life kinda person but also a lyer and a bully for yelling at people. Basicly a monumental ass hat that noone knows what he'll say or do next.
On the other hand you have the current president who jumped the gun and rushed into Iraq with little proof of the WMD's he was told were there, rumors aren't proof. And that did a great job rallieing the nation after the worst attack its ever seen. Sure he can't speek in pubic and has a hard time remembering his own name but so far so good.

Jumping the gun is one thing, this wasn't it. There wasn't any solid or even halfway credible evidence that there was anything regarding CBRN weapons in Iraq. He also made no attempt to hide the fact that Iraq was payback on a vendetta. (he tried to kill my dad... ring any bells?)

I'd rather someone that would have gotten the job done and done properly (ie. more troops on the ground, per Tommy Franks' plan... Kerry has at least got some muster behind his military credentials, he's seen combat). Afghanistan, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Iran, Syria, Oman, Palestine, UAE, and Saudi Arabia are the terror capitals in the mid-east. They've been side-stepped or willingly forgotten. Iraq was under tight enough wraps (from the UN from outside and Hussein himself on the inside) that Al-queda wouldn't have considered it as a place to set up. Any intel analyst worth half their pay knew that.

Quote:

No one could have forseen the crap we'd be getting into, no one. I think as of late he's screwing up pretty big but given the choice we had thanks to the democrates for not haveing a single canidate worth a sh-t !

I just hope this time around we get somebody in office who is gonna make things right.

You need a 3rd option... My inimitable thoughts are that if there is not at least an 80% turn out, there is no valid election result, you can't have consensus when 50% of the population votes. If there isn't a consensus, I think that the executive branch should be populated with the Senate and Congressional leaders, and a third person, preferably a past president until another election can be held, and that result be final with a business to business or house to house polling. Seriously, calling a 50% turn out definitive results, is an obscenity.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Flip Floping

Got some good ole flip flopin for you there Jackalope.

Abolition of political parties is a pipe dream unfortunately.

I don't want to get into another Bush vs Kerry argument.

Bush can't run again, maybe if people understood what the individual candidates stood for we'd have a diffrent outcome.

I say viva la socialism, but I'm the few not the many.


-Chris

Your right Rascal Bush is done in a couple more years I just hope he doesn't do anything else stupid. Tho I'm not gonna hold my breath! Oh and I'm at work and have no sound so I couldn't tell anything that was going on in the clip, sorry. if I remember I'll check it when I get home.

Gam Kerry saw combat for a few months till he could BS his way into 3 purple hearts he needed to get out. Bush is a coward and so is Kerry lets not fool around here. I got more then one splinter and got hurt several times but I never got one purple heart. I guess if it were up to Kerry I'd be called a hero now cause I actualy got hurt from an enemy. Hes an ass hat point blank end of story and Bush is well on his way to being one as well.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Well, not to disabuse you of the notion Jack, but you don't BS your way into 1 much less 3 medals IIRC Purple Hearts nominations are investigated before being awarded... I'm not saying that it's impossible to get it without cause, but still, Kerry saw actual combat... Dubya was valliantly protecting the skies of Houston from Viet Cong.

And what's this "on the way" business with Bush? He's been there since Arbusto oil floundered.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Yes you can Gam! The rules for getting one say you must be injured during combat.
One of his medals was for a splinter he got on his boat! his CO refused to submit it so Kerry just waited a few weeks till a command change re-submitted and the new CO put it threw without even reading a mission report as to what happened! Another one of his purple hearts was for when HE SHOT HIMSELF in the leg by accident during an exchange of fire with the enemy on shore. He was on the opposite side of the boat and put a round into the deck and grazed his leg and put in for one and was given it. Can't remember what the third one was for. Then once out he THREW them away!

Now in contrast take my grandfather for example. He joined the Army for WW I by lying about his age and getting in to fight for his country. While in France he was shot and hospitalized ( Purple Heart #1 ) gets cleared for combat two weeks later his buddy steps on a mine and is blown to bits. Pieces of his buddy rip into him like shrapnel and its back to the hospital ( Purple Heart #2 ) Finally he was in a trench that was hit with mustard gas and had all the skin burned off his body to the flesh, laid in the trench for over a week blind and burned before help could get him out. He spent the remainder of the war in a French hospital while his skin re-grew but he remained blind for several years Finally getting his site back ( Purple Heart #3 ). WW II broke out and he went back in got 2 more purple Hearts for being shot on two separate occasions and was sent back state side due to injuries. He received a total of 5 Purple Hearts in 2 separate wars and received numerous other awards including some top French medal ( can't remember its name ) Korea came around he TRIED to go again but the Army said no way! Now I'm in no way bragging about my grandfather I'm simply trying to point out the difference as to why I say Kerry is a coward and not deserving of ANY of his Purple Hearts! And certainly not worthy of ANY respect.

I'm starting to not be a Bush fan but I will NEVER say Kerry is anything other then a traitorous, cowardly, gutless wonder not deserving to have EVER been on the presidential ticket for ANY party. True Bush is a coward as well but please stop trying to make me believe Kerry is some kind of war hero. I know what a war hero is and Mr.Kerry is no war hero.



Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Jackalope wrote:I'm starting to not be a Bush fan but I will NEVER say Kerry is anything other then a traitorous, cowardly, gutless wonder not deserving to have EVER been on the presidential ticket for ANY party. True Bush is a coward as well but please stop trying to make me believe Kerry is some kind of war hero. I know what a war hero is and Mr.Kerry is no war hero.

Well that describes Bush pretty well, don't forget that Kerry actually served, while Bush went AWOL making him ineligable for the presedential ticket in the first place (the joy of politics). I won't say that Kerry is a war hero, but he did actually contribute to the war and served in the military, you have to realize that some people are born with the goal of political ascension, getting purple hearts helps in that.

So before the teapot calls the kettle black I'll once again say that I had complete faith that Bush was incapable of doing his job and both Quail and Kerry would have been much better choices.


-Chris

Well Bush is deff turning into a bigger idiot as the days pass but you'll never convince me that Dan Quail ( the man who opposed going after Bin Laden dureing Iran contra )
Or John Kerry would have done any better. I can imagine Quail after 9 / 11 telling us how its was all our fault we were attacked and we should appoligize to the terrorists for haveing to die during the attacks. Nope Quail was another Gutless wonder. And you know how I feel about Kerry.

I just hope we get someone worth voteing for this time around.





Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

I think Kerry threw another vet's ribbons IIRC at the rally. As I remember reading about it, the point was to throw the ribbons, not the actual medal. I may be wrong though, and that's not to say that some vets threw their medals as well. Sounds odd I know...

Either way, someone had to check out the claims... and approve them. And again, if nothing else, he's actually SEEN combat.

I just find it kind of sickening and ironical that Bush has the stones to call himself a war president, and yet, he doesn't a have a full second of combat experience, he doesn't listen to the General Officer's plans of attack (in Tommy Frank's and Tony Zinnie's books), and to top that, he's been paring away troops from Iraq as though the problem is solved, when the elected government and provisional Military and police force have yet to convene for a constitution and be completely trained... It's 3 years after invasion FOCL. This kind of ineptitude is Nixonian in stature.

BTW, how old was your Grand-dad in WWI? Seems to me that he'd only have been 16 in order to serve in any capacity in WWII if he enlisted and didn't recieve a commission. My Grand-dad (on my dad's side) was in WWII, in 1939 (along with 10 of 13 brothers and sister), one of his brothers was in WWI, recieved a field commission, and that was transferred to a regular commission. There was about 25 years between the eldest and youngest. Irish families.





Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Not sure his age I was only told he lyed to get in ( shrug ) I'll try to find out what year he was born in.

He does indeed need to listen to those around him who know whats going on. A good leader doesn't need to know everything but he does need to listen to thoe who know somethings. Its his job to put it all together and as of late hes not doing so good.

I don't recall if they were his or someone elses or if they were ribbons on the actual medals but thats neither here nor there its the principal of what he did and what they stood for not so much the act itself and the disrespect he showed to anyone who got a Purple Heart or died in combat and thier family got the medal for them. Hes an ass hat plain and simple.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Keep in mind, I seriously doubt that Kerry or Bush would have had the stones to fight in WWI. And many americans went over there lying about their age because we (collectively) didn't want to fight that war originally.

I still say there should be 2 amendments to the consitiution--saying that one permanently abolishing the draft doesn't happen (very likely):

1) Both men and women are elidgable--to give these feminists some of the equal rights they keep harping about.

2) The first batch of people that are conscriopted are all immediate relatives--kids or grandkids, of the members of the ligislative, executive, and judicial branches.

It would make the world a better place IMHO.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

I agree with you on that Keeper as to either one of them going into WW I or WW II. They're both cowards in my book.

I think alowing women to fight on the front lines is a horrible idea! First off if they get captured they're never gonna be able to walk straight again after they get raped God only knows how many times. But think of this, when you go into combat you have on your uniform your utility belt your riffle your side arm all the ammo for them both a ruck sack
with all your gear a kevlar helmet and now body armor. That all weighs alot and in some cases almost as much as some women. Then you ask them to run flat out accross a battle field carrieing all that crap while ducking incomeing rounds and artilery
THEN have a 225 pound man with all his crap get hit right next to her. There is NO WAY in hell a women is gonna be able to help him hes as good as dead! Women just do not have the explosive speed or strength needed for front line combat. Sorry but its a fact and that fact is the reason they are not there at present.

As far as the draft goes it should be done away with perminently. BUT like Isreal ALL men and women that are able bodied should be required to serve 4 years in the military in one form or another. I think it would help turn boys and girls into responcible men and women ready to take on the world. Rather then the bunch of panty waisted limp wrist do nothings that still live with mom and dad and are in their 30's sitting around all day playing video games and eating fast food till they can't even stand up.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Mandatory Service in the military doesn't really do anything but assure that there are minimally proficient service people available for conscription. Just remember that the IDF and Israeli Military are 2 extremely different entities. The IDF is urban locales only and are used as a reservist force only in time of peril... they're more police than anything. The military is professional, and mechanised in many cases.

There is just as much crime among jews that serve in the military as there is among those that are out of the military or yet to enter the military.

It's the same in Spain, Russia, China, Taiwan... etc.

The only place that it's different is Switzerland, but, you have to continually qualify to use firearms and keep a clean criminal history (even non-violent felonies) in order to be allowed to serve in the defensive forces.

As for Kerry, I'd rather an asshat that saw combat and knows enough to listen to the people that know (and did some objectionable things during an objectionable war) and get the damned job done properly, than an asshat that hasn't seen Combat, hasn't been in a professional military, nor uses sage military advice during a time of war... and then calls himself a war-president.

Ducking for cover under fire and getting a medal for it... that's life (one of my great uncles had his ear shot off on Sword Beach during D-Day, he was sent home with a courageous service medal), Ducking out of duty because you're "too good" to serve even the full amount of your Reserve Service... that's cowardice.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

No the difference is your uncle didn't shoot off his own ear he took an enemy round and should be looked upon as a war hero. Its men like him and my grandfather that made sure we can live the way we do today. BTW if he still around thank him for his service for me.

Clinton never saw combat either so even tho I do view him as a coward his service was no different then that of Clintons. And as far as haveing as ass hat as president I'd just asume not if thats ok with you guys. I'd prefer someone be put forth as a candiate that we could vote FOR rather then voteing to keep someone from getting electid. But thats just me.





Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Keep in mind, Jack, just because you're drafted doesn't mean you'll see frontline duty--no all of the boys drafted for 'nam went to the front lines--some were support personnel.

IMHO, there's nothing that say a woman can't be part of, say, a forawrd base's ground grew and be drafted to do so. Plus, with the deviants present in any culture, male POW's can be raped as vigorusly as women can be.

The way i see it, equal is equal. If i have the right to be drafted into service and die for some politican's agenda, so does a woman.

And i do not agree with mandatory military unless provisions are made for people to have the choice of living outside the system.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.