Why would it have been ? And if it was just stick a big red cross on the door and your invisible. Too much of the worlds intelligence said he had them for there to be none.
I could see if it were just our country that claimed it but everyone except France and Germany said they did. Those two countries BTW were proven to have been suppling weapons illegaly to Iraq. For them to oppose the war was just good business sence.
Nope just sit back and wait they'll pop up.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Not in Syria
Seriously, Russia who had said originally that there was chem/bio weapons in Iraq had retracted (very publicly), Britain had said that their original reports from Her Majesty's Intelligence Service were derrived primarily from a guy that had interest in seeing the hussein regime fall, and one better, had an Axe to grind with them.. They did not stand by the validity of the reports.
Also, Iraq couldn't have shipped the entirity of their conjectured WMD programme by truck, in the space of a week, there is just too much that would have had to go on in preparation, and then, you wouldn't get it all over if you filled up a few thousand tankers of the stuff. Let's also not forget that transporting these things requires a little more of a seal than what you could get commercially.
Either way, medical convoys out of Iraq could be monitored into Syria, Lebanon or Iran... you have stationary keyhole satellites over Iraq, and they've been there for at least 6 years.
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Truth
Whether they had something to lose or not, that has nothing to do with the Iraq War and all its illegalties, let alone this entire administrations illegal acts outside of the war.
I think that everyone who did not agree with the United States and chose not to support this effort are truly remarkable people/countries. Even more so, those that got involved and saw that it was all based upon lies and punched out are even more so remarkable to me. I admire these people.
"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."
I believe this guy is saying planes flew it out under the guise of humanitarian relief. Either way as Saddam sits in jail longer perhaps more of his old cronies will get brave enough to step forward like this guy has. Is he lying ? Only time will tell but I believe
there will be some turn up.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
The same idea with flights... you don't have that kind of build up without being able to back-trace.
There have been some turn up, but nothing close to the number that's been bandied about like a stripper's excess garments.
Basically, there was some tolerated because of the possible incursion by Iran for retribution from the previous war.
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Quote:
i found the WMD. Bush and Cheney. now look at that, it wasnt that hard to find them at all. we've been looking at them for the past 5 years
Oh theyre weapons alright
after seeing how the middle easterners work, i'm VERY sure they could get X amount of WMDs out of Iraq by truck in a week. I have seen them build a two story, sixty five room, 42,000 square foot building in less than one month including land preparation, foundation, wiring, plumbing, and screwing in light bulbs.
and after seeing the way their transport vehicles run, i'm VERY sure they weren't worried about any seals on any truck.
and I doubt you know how a satellite works. they don't just sit there on top of iraq. i know. i did their telemetry two months ago. AND, most of the ISR over the AOR is NOT satellite provided leaving GAPING holes for ANYTHING to get through.
Kevin: do you know that it takes about 15 minutes to re-train a geo-stationary satelite?
I've worked around sat. equipment... it's not entirely impossible, and the US (insert department here) has had birds aloft and watching the Gulf with INTENSE interest since Saddam Hussein had installed his anti-satellite gun. On top of that, NASA, and several other non-us agencies currently have satellites that can pick out individual motorcycles in a crowd... You'd think that with NASA's dwindling budget, the CIA's disclosed budget would allow for some extra R&D funds. There's land-based cameras (4 Gigapixel) that can pick up the by-lines of newspapers at 7 miles (figuring a downward tragectory)... It's not inconcievable that you could fit that to a power source, a telemetry pack, a positioning thruster quad set, and set it aloft.
On top of this:
1- You don't knock down a weaponised CBRN plant in a couple weeks... years, maybe. Not without killing a few thousand people, that is... that's a wee bit noticeable.
2- Moving the amounts that have been proposed would leave huge chemical signatures that are traceable 2-3 years after moving.
3- They had no way to move nuclear fissile materials in quantity (we're talking tonnes here) without shielding (a grapefruit sized ball of U-285 needs about 35 pounds of lead based shielding, go with that as a base) that would give the shipments away.
4- With the exception of Syria (which is HEAVILY monitored both by satellites and sigs, not sure about human assets), there is no other place in the region that would accept that kind of ordinance in quantity.
5- The Building you were talking about would either shake itself apart under load, or, had multiple work crews building it. Also, it's a pretty damned huge step from knocking down a level 3-4 bio/chem containment facility (where you could safely manufacture that kind of stuff without killing the population 1000 miles downwind), to putting up a civillian use building. Have you ever seen USAMRIID? CDSA? CSCHAH? No, I don't think so. You'd know that first, these places have faultless concrete research cubes (which you don't happen to come by everywhere), and, that even a level 3 chemical research facility is something you can't hide... they send up gigantic heat plumes which are in fact, trackable by weather satellites. You don't put one of those up, or knock them down quickly, particularly if you don't want to attract attention.
Before you get into it, yes, I have CBRN training, I have not worked in a Level 4 facility, but I know what it takes to erect one as well as what is theoretically required for a minimally acceptable bio-weapons manufacture facility that is concealable. I have also read (and encourage anyone that wants to debate further on the subject) the Iraq Survey Group and Duelfer reports.
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Something hasen't been mentioned yet and has always been a deciding factor in my opinion on this subject.
If you were in fact Sadam Hussein and the US along with other countries you hate were attacking you wouldn't you use your WMD's if you had them??? Like honestly, he was saving them for a rainy day? Maybe to fight an enemy that he hates more than the United States.... I highly doubt that.
If he in fact had them, he would have used them, he's a nutjob, wacko, crazy.... we all know that. So if he didn't use them, he didn't have them to use and there weren't any in his posession.
I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, thats as good as they are going to feel all day. ~ Dean Martin
We got to Bagdad too fast for him to deploy them agaisnt us. And don't forget the river was found to be full of different WMD's when we got there. Invadeing Army moves faster then you thought so you pull out but before you go you poison the water supply.
Very old tactic.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
You can deploy Chemical weapons as soon as the tanks they're contained in are pressurised.
Same with Bio weapons deployed as aerosol.
Total time is about 30mins... You didn't make Baghdad in 30 mins..
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GASP !!! Bite your tounge yes we did !!! And we ran the whole way on foot and backwards .
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Seriously, I have a feeling GAM is the only one making a plausible argument. Im no engineer, but I certainly agree that if there were WPD, Iraq would need something big enough to haul them, such as a railway. Unlike Canada and other developed nations Iraq does not have a railway linking them to other middle eastern countries. I highly doubt Syria is capable of fostering or sustain WPD. I seriously disagree that Iraq even had WPD however I do not have the sources to prove.
I think Canadians and Americans should wake up, clearly whats going on here is a Clash of Civilazations (Huntington, 2005).
Jackalope wrote:GASP !!! Bite your tounge yes we did !!! And we ran the whole way on foot and backwards .
Uphill??? Did everyone have Kazoos and hum out "Charge of the Light Brigade" while they treked along???
EGAD, MAN!
Sam: WPD?? (Weapons of Prolific Destruction?) Usually that kind of term is left for the media because it's nebulous. CBRN (Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear) is the term used most of the time if you want to discuss it with someone that has training with dealing with those items.
There is (last I checked) a railway line linking Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon. The problem is that they need the trains to move them, and the links to the other countries. Rail links were dismantled/destroyed in Iraq in 1992-93 IIRC, but there are still functioning links to Jordan (note, pro-USA state). There was no major movement of trucks or any mass carriers up to the war, and I'll tell you how I know this: There weren't thousands of people killed down-wind... Iraq doesn't have the ability to move mass-quantities, and the problem with weaponising agents like that is that the medium used to move the biologicals and chemicals is usually pressurised because the medium aerosolises when it hits the atmosphere. The moving of noxious looking, green fluids in little glass spheres is poppycock. Delivery usually happens off of trucks, or aircraft, it needs to turn into a fume fast so it can propigate.
I'm not going to flog a dead horse, I've stated a few times what I think of the War.
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